Plume or mold?!?

[themoneycollector]

According to Famous this is plume and safe to smoke

I received a bad batch of cigars and FSS rep tries to tell me how this is plume and not mold, and only blue mold is unsafe.

Funny thing is they would let me return them for a refund, but wouldn't let me return them for replacements like I wanted.

....LOL :c :fu2 FSS

sorry for the blurry pics

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/themoneycollector/0477c695.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/themoneycollector/50c12d56.jpg

[NCRadioMan]

Typical case of mold (spotchy here and there with radiating hair-looking structures). Plume is uniform across the whole cigar and looks alot like a fine dust. Wipe those off and enjoy.

[Savor the Stick]

:tpd:

Mold :tu

[icehog3]

.

Funny thing is they would let me return them for a refund, but wouldn't let me return them for replacements like I wanted.



Because the rest all probably have "plume" too. ;)

[massphatness]

Jesus

[themoneycollector]

I know 100% this is mold.

It's just sad that they would try and tell me otherwise. I feel bad for anyone who would believe them.

[Newbie_nick]

Yuck! Do you guys smoke sticks with mold on them? Does it change the flavor?

[icehog3]

Yuck! Do you guys smoke sticks with mold on them? Does it change the flavor?

White mold generally wipes right off whith no adverse effects, as long as it isn't in the foot.

[lenguamor]

White mold generally wipes right off whith no adverse effects, as long as it isn't in the foot.

This. Don't be afraid of mold. I have some '98-'99 Añejos that had some mold on them when I bought them; if I had passed on them at the time out of timidity I would have missed out on some truly amazing smokes and yet more to come! -(P

[Flounder]

What exactly is plume?

[icehog3]

What exactly is plume?

Good disucssion here:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13777&highlight=plume

[Fordman4ever]

I just smoked an Oliva masterblend with a little bit of mold on it and it was fine.

[Savor the Stick]

What exactly is plume?

Goodness! ! !

It can mean that the cigars have been kept in a real good environment. The link will explain it all.

[never_enough]

I don't know what I would do if I had cigars with mold on them. Just seems weird to smoke them. But if you all say it doesn't hurt it, then I will consider keeping it if I ever come across any with mold.

[Flounder]

Good disucssion here:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13777&highlight=plume

As they say in the food industry, "heard!" Thanks for the link.

[BTcigars]

Please be careful with moldy cigars, they can lead to real health problems.

[themoneycollector]

I avoid moldy cigars altogether. Some say wiping them off is ok when it's on the outer wrapper only, but I prefer not to take any risk. A cigar isn't worth me getting sick at all.

[BC-Axeman]

White mold generally wipes right off with no adverse effects, as long as it isn't in the foot.
I've smoked a lot of lightly molded cigars after wiping them clean. You can kill the mold in the fridge and if the cigars don't get too warm it wont come back, at least in our climate.

[AmsterDan]

MoneyCollector, the number one cause of mold is high humidity. What percentage do you keep in your humidor(s)?

In warmer climates two things happen:
1. Warmer air plus high humidity is asking for mold.
2. Your gauge might indicate 70% humidity but due to warmer air, it might actually be higher than that.

Safe humidor humidity numbers are 65% to 68% while keeping it cool in there!

[icehog3]

MoneyCollector, the number one cause of mold is high humidity. What percentage do you keep in your humidor(s)?

In warmer climates two things happen:
1. Warmer air plus high humidity is asking for mold.
2. Your gauge might indicate 70% humidity but due to warmer air, it might actually be higher than that.

Safe humidor humidity numbers are 65% to 68% while keeping it cool in there!

His cigars arrived with mold on them. ;)

[Skywalker]

:pu:pu:pu

[Taki]

I've never seen a bad batch like that before...glad everyone else has the knowledge in here to specially say what it is that way I know for future purchases and whatnot. Does look like mold to me but...I wouldn't smoke them
:pu

[AmsterDan]

Holy crap, that's bad ... really bad! Disregard my suggestions.

[mash]

According to Famous this is plume and safe to smoke

I received a bad batch of cigars and FSS rep tries to tell me how this is plume and not mold, and only blue mold is unsafe.

Funny thing is they would let me return them for a refund, but wouldn't let me return them for replacements like I wanted.

....LOL :c :fu2 FSS

sorry for the blurry pics

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/themoneycollector/0477c695.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff211/themoneycollector/50c12d56.jpg

Did you forward pics to them? It's unbelievable that anyone who sees this pic would even think for a microsecond it's plume. Either really clueless or really dishonest.

[CasaDooley]

Did you forward pics to them? It's unbelievable that anyone who sees this pic would even think for a microsecond it's plume. Either really clueless or really dishonest.

I don't know if I would say clueless or dishonest, but maybe misinformed. Just because they work for a cigar company does not mean they are as well informed and educated as, say, the fine members of this board. Just sayin...:ss

[VirginianTemplar]

n00b here, I found this thread while sitting in my accounting class tonight. As luck would have it I received two samplers from FSS today of the very same cigars.

I opened the first and found a spot of mold on one so I picked up the phone and called the 800 number on the invoice. The lady was polite and immediately set out to get a return label to me and another sampler sent my way. After hanging up I opened the other one and found mold on ~half of the gars. :td

I called back and spoke with someone else. He asked me what color the spots were and as soon as I said "white" he immediately flew into a "That's not mold that's...". Hold the phone hoss, I've seen plume, and I've seen mold in many places on many things. They look nothing alike and I'm not a dummy, despite how I may look.

I offered to send pictures and they gladly accepted them. Here's the reply

"Thank you for your email. My manager, supervisor, and myself all took a look at the pictures you have provided and we can confirm definitely that is in fact plum (bloom) and not mold. Mold would be green or bluish and when you wipe it off the cigar it would leave a stain and can rip the wrap because the mold would seep into the wrapper itself. If you wipe what you have on the cigar right now off, there should be no stain and the wrap will be intact. We have all confirmed what you have is simply plum. You can wipe it off and enjoy your cigars. If we had a littlest suspicion it was mold we would immediately inform you to return the cigars."

I guess there is no such thing as white mold. Tis impossible for it to grow on tobacco. Some guy on the internet said so.


Here's a pic

[jluck]

send them back.done.

[Bill86]

Yeah I wouldn't order from them anymore.

[VirginianTemplar]

One mo' pic for good measure. Sure looks crystalline to me.

[VirginianTemplar]

I'll be sending an e-mail off to them tomorrow. It was after COB today when I got their reply. It's one thing to get a product that has mold on it. They were in tubes, and the package was shrink wrapped, there was no way for them to know. However, I don't take being lied to lightly. I don't know how they could willingly be so ignorant or deceitful. Reputation is everything and in the age of the net, all it takes is one PO'd customer to go blazing a trail and you're taking on water. At least the La Aurora Preferidos I ordered showed up fine. -(P


FSS is rating high on my fecal roster.

[jluck]

Yep...there's plenty of places to buy from. They should treat people with that attitude.

[ApexAZ]

I got a few AF Double Chateau from FSS with moldy looking spots under the cedar. I just wiped them down and smoked them. Tasted great. That's not to say that FSS shouldn't let you return them if you want though.

[BlkDrew]

That is mold....
This is plume... these are some wrappers that i have, that had been aging. after opening the bag you could smell the ammonia

http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy93/vorand58/IMG_1137.jpg
http://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy93/vorand58/IMG_1138.jpg

[VirginianTemplar]

I'm actually pretty sensitive to mold, and a few other environmental factors, so my concern is mostly about inhaling spores and ending up with the crap growing in me. :D I know mold is omnipresent, but what I can't see doesn't tend to bother me. What I can does. I'm funny like that. I'm more put off by their attitude. I wasn't asking for anything for free, nor do I expect it.

I have to wonder if they actually think they're right, or if they think since they're around cigars all day that they know everything and the customers are just unknowing hacks?


When I was in Guatemala I saw the hotel had a walk in humidor with cohibas. I got excited and called for someone to let me in. I looked in the top of one of the boxes and it was covered in a carpet of blue green mold. It was ugly. I just left since I didn't speak Spanish and wouldn't have been able to tell her why I wasn't buying any. These cats speak english.

[ApexAZ]

I'm actually pretty sensitive to mold, and a few other environmental factors, so my concern is mostly about inhaling spores and ending up with the crap growing in me. :D I know mold is omnipresent, but what I can't see doesn't tend to bother me. What I can does. I'm funny like that. I'm more put off by their attitude. I wasn't asking for anything for free, nor do I expect it.

I have to wonder if they actually think they're right, or if they think since they're around cigars all day that they know everything and the customers are just unknowing hacks?


When I was in Guatemala I saw the hotel had a walk in humidor with cohibas. I got excited and called for someone to let me in. I looked in the top of one of the boxes and it was covered in a carpet of blue green mold. It was ugly. I just left since I didn't speak Spanish and wouldn't have been able to tell her why I wasn't buying any. These cats speak english.

I hear you. I just had a similar experience in a local shop. I appreciate it when people are just honest. I can't really say if they were lying or truly don't know better. It isn't limited to cigars either. Its Anything that has to do with sales.

Anyways, I personally just wipe them down if the foot looks okay, but I can respect that not everyone wants to do that, especially given the high cost of cigars. I agree that they should both be honest and allow to to return them. A grocer wouldn't think twice about letting you return moldy bread, regardless of how harmless they may think it is.

I have returned some cigars to FSS with no problem due to cracked wrappers and a beetle hole. Actually, they just sent me replacements as it wasn't enough to warrant the shipping cost to return them. I've never tried to return anything due to mold though.

Welcome to Cigar Asylum!

[jluck]

Yep welcome BTW...

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=7

[mash]

That's not what you want to be Famous for.

[guitar4001]

there is a local store here in leavenworth with a sizeable walk-in humidor. The temp is WAY over 70 and the humidity is so thick that it soaks your clothes! My wife and I paid them a visit (it's the only walk-in humidor within 30 miles) when we arrived here in 2010. The mold on the cigars was ridiculous. Some cigars in the boxes were so thick with mold that you couldn't see a hint of a wrapper or band. We left before we caught some sort of respiratory ailment. The guy running the store (it's in a gas station) wasn't at all concerned. I'll never go back unless someone locally wants to see a case study in mold growth.

[tupacboy]

blacklight if your not for sure :)

[sikk50]

:pu:pu:pu

Fool, I've seen you smoke moldy cigars before! :gary

[pnoon]

blacklight if your not for sure :)
:confused:
What purpose would a blacklight serve?
Posted via Mobile Device

[T.G]

:confused:
What purpose would a blacklight serve?
Posted via Mobile Device

A number of molds, possibly all, will fluoresce when under UV from a blacklight, even if the colony isn't visible under normal light.

Learned this the "OMG! I've been breathing THAT? I am so out of here." way due to a former landlord that wouldn't properly maintain his properties.

I have no idea though if plume, certain capas or even the pectin will or won't fluoresce also.

[sikk50]

Learn something new everyday!

[VirginianTemplar]

A number of molds, possibly all, will fluoresce when under UV from a blacklight, even if the colony isn't visible under normal light.

Learned this the "OMG! I've been breathing THAT? I am so out of here." way due to a former landlord that wouldn't properly maintain his properties.

I have no idea though if plume, certain capas or even the pectin will or won't fluoresce also.

These didn't. I did speak with the same guy who sent me the e-mail. After a short conversation I have a replacement en route via his desk for a mold check before it hits my doorstep. :D

[Sonic04GT]

That looks disgusting. Maybe I'm just a pansy, but no way I would smoke those, especially considering even the slight possibility of negative effect on health.

I've placed 2-3 orders from FSS and haven't had any problems but I will definitely keep this in mind.

Saw these guys at Spec's Liquor :-/

http://www.lolzilla.net/images/7420679.jpg

[ApexAZ]

These didn't. I did speak with the same guy who sent me the e-mail. After a short conversation I have a replacement en route via his desk for a mold check before it hits my doorstep. :D

Glad to hear they worked it out for you!

[T.G]

These didn't. I did speak with the same guy who sent me the e-mail. After a short conversation I have a replacement en route via his desk for a mold check before it hits my doorstep. :D

Excellent that you got it worked out and are getting replacements.

Regarding the fluoresce, or lack thereof, from what I remember of what the inspector said at the time he did a walk though, was that dead mold doesn't fluoresce and that he thought most all mold did, certainly everything that he was interested in did, but wasn't 100% sure about stuff you might find growing on food. Also, he was using a rather high-powered UV light, it wasn't the run of the mill thing you would find at a hardware or electronics store, it might have had a wider or deeper spectrum than some of the other stuff.

[mash]

A number of molds, possibly all, will fluoresce when under UV from a blacklight, even if the colony isn't visible under normal light.

Learned this the "OMG! I've been breathing THAT? I am so out of here." way due to a former landlord that wouldn't properly maintain his properties.

I have no idea though if plume, certain capas or even the pectin will or won't fluoresce also.

In this case, you don't need to go that far. Round patchy clumps with tentacles = mold.

[ktblunden]

Glad they're getting it cleared up, but I'm really disappointed that FSS jumps immediately to the "not mold, plume" defense even after being provided with photos that leave zero doubt it's mold. That's another strike for me against Famous and I'm pretty sure I'm just not going to order from them anymore.

[BlindedByScience]

I can't believe FSS would stick by such nonsense. Last time I order from them, to be sure.

Here's a post I made some time back in another forum. One guy actually suggested using dilute bleach to wipe mold off....:sl

Seems topical to the subject at hand:

Guys, for the love of all things, this really is lots simpler than you are all trying to make it.

Bloom or plume or WTF ever you want to call it is due to the oils in the cigar seeping through the wrapper and crystallizing on the wrapper. It typically takes years for this process to occur and many cigars wont do this at all. If I dug every cigar I have in my cabinet out and went through them all (including some ISOM's from the 60's) my guess is that I might, and I do repeat might, find one or two that have plume. Maybe. Possibly. It's relatively uncommon, which makes a cigar that has it rare and interesting.

Mold is 99 times out 100 three dimensional...plume is not. Mold will usually wipe off with a moist cloth....plume will usually not but I have seen thin layers of crystallized oils that were affected by wiping. Mold shows up in (usually) hairy little spots...plume show up as a hard to see sheen, a thin film on the wrapper.

In the years that I've been smoking, each and every time someone posts pics and says "...is this mold or plume..." it has been without a doubt mold. Every time. If you find spots on your cigars and are asking yourself "...gee, is this mold or plume..." let me help you out: It's mold. I have yet to walk into a B&M and find cigars with plume on them, but I sure have seen some furry boxes of moldy cigars that the owner then proudly said were "nicely aged and covered with plume" and I walked right out, never to return, every time.

This is all pretty cut and dry. What to do about them is probably more open to opinion.

Wikipedia tells us that:

Molds....are fungi that grow in the form of multicellular filaments called hyphae.[1] Molds are considered to be microbes but microscopic fungi that grow as single cells are called yeasts. A connected network of these tubular branching hyphae has multiple, genetically identical nuclei and is considered a single organism, referred to as a colony.

The important wording in there is that mold typically grows in multicellular filaments. Mold may show up as a spot here or there, but the chances are quite good that even when dealing with surface spots, the growth has penetrated the wrapper and is well into the cigar. Tobacco is easily penetrated by these types of fungal infections. If you see mold on the foot of the cigar, you're done. Period. The very core of the cigar has been permeated and you're pretty much screwed. Yes, you can sometimes wipe surface spots off with a damp rag (I've used distilled water in past efforts) but you have to ask yourself what's inside the cigar that you can't see. A tiny spot is one thing; a wrapper that has hairy blotches all over it is probably toast. It's a matter of degree but usually I don't bother. I have tried to "repair" a cigar with mold spots on it in the past and the result is like smoking a well used pair of gym socks. Eeeccch....no thank you.

Now, this whole business of dilute bleach wiping a cigar. Chlorine has highest electron affinity and the third highest electronegativity of all the elements, which is a hoity toity way to say it's one hell of a powerful oxidizer and has a particular affinity for organic materials. That's why it's such a great disinfectant. Now, sure, a capful of bleach in a gallon of water is probably drinkable. Most literature that I could find on storing water recommended two to three drops per liter, so a capful per gallon might be a little strong but is in the ballpark.. But there are a couple of things to consider here. Most bleach is formulated for laundry use, and as such, often times has more in it than Chlorine in it. This will vary from product to product but it's worth noting. But, if you put bleach in water I can promise you that you'll be able to taste it. Yes, Chlorine is very volatile and will out gas quickly, but what did it do to the fragile tobacco leaves until it did? I mean, if it's powerful enough to kill the surface mold on contact, wouldn't you think it would also be powerful to at least change the wrapper somewhat? You know, the part of the cigar that is the majority of the taste of the cigar? No thank you.

My $00.02 is that if you really want to wipe your cigar wrapper, a little distilled water should do the trick. Then, promptly smoke the darn thing. Even if you clean it up on the outside, you have no way to know how deeply impinged the mold is into the body of the cigar. I'm as cheap as the next guy, but when it comes to cigars with any amount of mold at all, they get pitched. Period.

The comments about Anejo's is interesting; for reasons I can't fully explain, they seem to be the most mold-prone wrappers I've ever dealt with. Having had a box of lovely 48's destroyed by mold, anymore I pull them out of the box and pull the cedar tubes and dry box them for a couple days. Then they go back in the cabinet. Seems to do the trick; no more hairy Anejo's since....:2

Cheers, guys - B.B.S.

[357]

I've run into a number of B&Ms that will swear up and down their fuzzy cigars are in bloom or covered in plume, not mold. It pisses me off that they are either ignorant of the truth or intentionally lying. It's not a difficult thing to discerne. Blotches, fuzzy, uneven distribution, all = MOLD. You can see it from across the room. White almost dust looking crystals with even distribution = plume.

[GodOfFire]

I've run into a number of B&Ms that will swear up and down their fuzzy cigars are in bloom or covered in plume, not mold. It pisses me off that they are either ignorant of the truth or intentionally lying. It's not a difficult thing to discerne. Blotches, fuzzy, uneven distribution, all = MOLD. You can see it from across the room. White almost dust looking crystals with even distribution = plume.

I have never ran into this. Although I can see it happening. I went into a liquor store once with a stand up humi. I thought I would grab a cigar for the evening. I stuck my hand it and they were literally wet like sponges. I told the clerk and he seemed to think thats how they were suppose to be. I just left disgusted.

[tupacboy]

A number of molds, possibly all, will fluoresce when under UV from a blacklight, even if the colony isn't visible under normal light.

Learned this the "OMG! I've been breathing THAT? I am so out of here." way due to a former landlord that wouldn't properly maintain his properties.

I have no idea though if plume, certain capas or even the pectin will or won't fluoresce also.


:)

Sorry I realized later i should have said this in my original black light post....

What he said.... and to answer his question plume does not fluorense...

[Texan in Mexico]

Good disucssion here:

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13777&highlight=plume

As the Admiral says just wipe it of and smoke 'em up!

Thanks for the foot note buddy...

[VirginianTemplar]

Glad they're getting it cleared up, but I'm really disappointed that FSS jumps immediately to the "not mold, plume" defense even after being provided with photos that leave zero doubt it's mold. That's another strike for me against Famous and I'm pretty sure I'm just not going to order from them anymore.

Just to follow up I got my replacement in yesterday. It was opened, inspected and even had a signed note saying as much. One of the cigars was missing the second band and the wrapper was different than the others. It was rougher looking in texture and the color different. Aside from that all was well. I smoked the ugly one last night so I didn't have to be seen with an ugly cigar. :D

Now all that remains is for them to get my returned sampler and get a refund for the replacement.