Mikes Cigars loses Oliva.

[Silound]

Originally Posted by Drat

I have to argue this. Bose is built upon reputation for high quality. The reduction of the price might marginally affect the impressions of that quality, but the quality itself will stand alone. In your scenario above, you would likely sell out every single piece you brought in quickly, every time, and the brand name would not suffer.

Of course, when applying the same thoughts to cigars, it holds much more merit. The taste of a cigar is very subjective (if you want proof, look at the reviews in the Silound's dog rocket thread on the NC review board). People often say that cigars are better when smoked at Herfs. The impression that a cigar is better due to price, emotional state when smoking, etc. has some serious validity. But I wouldn't say it was the defining aspect of makes a good cigar.

Just my $.02, carry on...

Holy crap, I got a cross comment about that thread!


I agree about quality standing on it's own, and I agree that B&M's need support. But not everyone looks at quality. A HUGE number of shoppers (for cigars especially) buy high dollar assuming that it's quality because of the price. If a car costs 100,000 then it has to be a better vehicle than the one that costs 30,000 to them.

On the flip side, quality can command price, simply because there are people out there who will buy quality just for quality, regardless of the price.

Really it's about knowing your market demographic, and in a luxury market, it's all about those two extremes.

[neoflex]

I used to frequent and support my local B&Ms back in NY but since moving I have been unable to find a B&M that I feel comfortable with or happy enough with to call home. Problem I have been having is I either get to choose from Great selection but snotty stuck up staff or great staff but a Mehh selection of smokes most of which are not part of my rotation and than their is the other where their humidor conditions are amazingly bad for the name backing of the place but they too have mostly an unwelcoming staff. So now I find myself buying more from online retailers but do miss being able to head down to my local and buy a handful of smokes and get lost there for 4-6 hours. I have always known I can get the same smokes online for much cheaper but when I had a great local I never did mind paying $2-$4 more per stick because in my mind it was worth it.

[yourchoice]

Kind of off subject but on topic...

My local B&M has an area to smoke, but you have to be a member and pay a significant membership fee to sit and smoke there. The balance of their floor plan consists of their humidor (quite nice), accessory displays and a cash register. Smoking there would generally be uncomfortable. Do I still patronize them? Yes. Do I feel guilty about buying on-line? No. Would I buy more (a higher percentage of my purchases) if they had a chair to sit in and a TV to catch a little bit of a game? You bet!

What's my point? I'm not sure. I guess every B&M is different and "deserves" patronage based on their customer service and amenities. When I was in Orlando and visited Corona cigar, I bought their cigars, drank their beer and enjoyed myself immensely. If all B&M's were like that I think we'd all feel more obligation to buy more from them.

[Commander Quan]

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

[Yazzie]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

Agreed, it's a personal decision and you should feel no obligation whatsoever to support a B&M, just as those that frequent B&M's feel no obligation to support or buy from an internet retailer....

[Boomer]

I sell things manufactured by a name brand company. These items sell for anywhere from $35k to $250k. Although it is the leading brand in the industry, the marketplace dictates what that product will sell for based on quality, efficiency, aftermarket support and the reputation of the dealer. There are no artificial ways to make the consumer pay more (which this is all about) in my industry nor do I believe that there should be. The market should always dictate the price.

Originally Posted by Boomer

I sell things manufactured by a name brand company. These items sell for anywhere from $35k to $250k. Although it is the leading brand in the industry, the marketplace dictates what that product will sell for based on quality, efficiency, aftermarket support and the reputation of the dealer. There are no artificial ways to make the consumer pay more (which this is all about) in my industry nor do I believe that there should be. The market should always dictate the price.

I knew if I kept reading I might find an opinion I shared

To me its no different than the wally world argument putting the mom and pops out of business. In the 3 county area I live there have been dozens of wally worlds built. Lots of small shops went out of business. MANY survived and the winner was the consumer. The ones who survived, changed their business model, lowered prices or offered unique services. Gave me a reason to shop there, and I continue to support those who deserve my business. I the consumer still have the right to choose where to spend my money. The cigar industry should be no different. As mentioned earlier. the Ohio smoking ban provided a golden opportunity for shops to change their philosophy, create lounges, install a few plasma tvs, heck just put in a vending machine and a few chairs. A few did and they are often full of chatty old fellas telling war stories and moaning about the wife. The others, raised their prices since traffic went down, and they spend the day dusting the shelf's and throwing out the moldy cigars.

Chas

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

I can understand where you are coming from but at the same time you telling us of this trend may be a way for the B&Ms to make ends meet when smoking bans are put in place. Having a lounge may be the loop hole they need to keep it so their patrons can still smoke there or even may be a way to supplement lost revenue from the bans which may have caused business to drop. Most lounges but not all that I know of that are membership based will normally allow you to sit and enjoy your smokes there for free if you make purchases. I know of one that keeps their lounge behind closed doors and only allow paying members to enter. I can see your frustration since you used to be able to smoke there for free but can see both sides of the coin when you introduce public smoking bans especially if they are offering amenities that may not have been available prior to making it a full fledged lounge.

[Commander Quan]

Neoflex, perhaps they do need this extra income to make ends meat BUT, what if it had gone the other way. If they had kept the lounge open and advertised as a place that you can sit a smoke I think more people would be inclined to go there and smoke since we can't in bars, bowling allies, etc. and they would be buying more product at the same time. I know I am not alone in reducing my spending since implementing the "membership fee".

If I was allowed to enter with a minimum purchase perhaps I wouldn't be so torqued about the whole thing, but if you want to stay and smoke you pay the fee weather you buy a single or a box.

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Neoflex, perhaps they do need this extra income to make ends meat BUT, what if it had gone the other way. If they had kept the lounge open and advertised as a place that you can sit a smoke I think more people would be inclined to go there and smoke since we can't in bars, bowling allies, etc. and they would be buying more product at the same time. I know I am not alone in reducing my spending since implementing the "membership fee".

If I was allowed to enter with a minimum purchase perhaps I wouldn't be so torqued about the whole thing, but if you want to stay and smoke you pay the fee weather you buy a single or a box.

Not saying it is right just that I can see both sides. I've always wanted to open my own B&M/Lounge but in reality that is highly unlikely unless I win Powerball. If I did I would do as I described above. Have a members only type lounge but would have a very low daily fee probrably in the range of $5 but if you stopped in and bought $15-$20+ worth of smokes would allow you to come in and join at no additional cost to you. I am at least hoping that these places added some amenities. If they kept things as is and just imposed a membership fee than that is just wrong IMHO. If they added a separate section with private storage lockers, Flat screen TVs, upgraded seating etc etc than that would be at least be understandable. If you were a regular and they just shunned you for not joining than that too is just wrong.

[Silound]

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Perhaps a little off topic but...

Right now most of the shops that I visit where I live, in Ohio are changing the way they do business. I am seeing the opening of "private lounges" in shops that before the smoking ban passed had an area to smoke that was available for free. The membership fees vary but most have a monthly fee and a daily fee. The daily fee ranges from $5-$10. I have quit smoking there because of this extra expense and since I am not there as often I spend about 1/4 of the money that I used to on their cigars.

So what are my options? I either drive to the shop and pay $1-$2 or possibly more per cigar to support a local business that in my mind is charging people for a service that they offered for free 2 years ago
or
buy online and get an equal product for less?

I guess my loyalty to my local shops went away when they decide to try to make a quick buck off their regulars instead of using the smoking ban as an opportunity to welcome smokers and sell more product

I'm a little rusty, but last I checked the Ohio smoking ban only exempts some tobacco shops, not all, correct?

If the ban affects the shops you frequent, I see the fee as a way to allow smoking to continue for the convenience of the patrons. If it doesn't affect the shops, then what else do they offer besides a "private" lounge for you to smoke in? There has to be something that few dollars is being invested into.

Just curious.

[Commander Quan]

Originally Posted by Silound

I'm a little rusty, but last I checked the Ohio smoking ban only exempts some tobacco shops, not all, correct?

If the ban affects the shops you frequent, I see the fee as a way to allow smoking to continue for the convenience of the patrons. If it doesn't affect the shops, then what else do they offer besides a "private" lounge for you to smoke in? There has to be something that few dollars is being invested into.

Just curious.

Any cigar shop that was in operation before the ban is grandfathered in as long as 80% if revenue is tobacco related. Post ban any shop that is in a free standing building can be smoked in, but not one that is in a strip mall or has adjoining businesses. The laws definition of a "private club" is a place where there are no employees. So this wouldn't fly in a cigar store.

Originally Posted by Commander Quan

Any cigar shop that was in operation before the ban is grandfathered in as long as 80% if revenue is tobacco related. Post ban any shop that is in a free standing building can be smoked in, but not one that is in a strip mall or has adjoining businesses. The laws definition of a "private club" is a place where there are no employees. So this wouldn't fly in a cigar store.

I believe your right, but I was at a newer shop the other day in a strip shopping center, (I know they were not there before the ban) and they were smoking in there

I did buy a cigar from them because it was a nice shop and the lady actually made me laugh a few times. She said fire it up and let me know what you think. I said you sure you can be smoking in here and she replied smoke away.

So I did

Chas