Buying a new laptop- Apple?

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by 357

I love the virus argument. Let's explore that one. According to the stats here:

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...s-sinks-2009-4

Apple's market share gains levelled off at a whopping 7.4%. WOW.

According to the sources quoted here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows

Microsoft owns 91% of the OS market share.



Now lets consider motives.

Q: What is the primary motive for writing viruses and spyware?

A: To cause either chaos (viruses) or to make money (market research statistics forwarded to a central point, or via theft/fraud)

Q: Why would someone go through the trouble of writing code for these complex applications (virus/spyware) for a platform that only affects 7.4% of the market?

A: Good question. Primarily they don't.

I think you are making the point for us Mac users. Don't care if I am only 1% of the market. I am the 1% living carefree.

[357]

Originally Posted by Blueface

I think you are making the point for us Mac users. Don't care if I am only 1% of the market. I am the 1% living carefree.

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option. See how easy that "just works" or how intuitive it is. I will never need to emulate Mac OS X because every app I could ever possible want or need runs on Windows. I'm sure this is true of 99-100% of Windows users. I wonder what percentage of Mac users have to put their techie hat on to figure out how to emulate Windows? From their own admission it sounds like at least half of the Mac users who've been posting in this thread have had to at some point.

This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent. Remeber the virus argument? To expand that line of thinking, why bother writing your application/game twice only to reach an additional 7% of the market? These kind of things become apparent to the software companies, especially in a recession.





BTW, Merry Christmas! I hope you guys are enjoying this as much as I am.

[357]

In honor of this thread; at next year's Shack Herf I will make sure to wear a T-shirt with an Apple logo on it. Of course it will have a red circle around it with a & slash through it.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by 357

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

I think it is quite safe for me to say that not only has Apple outlasted the Beta, but it has also grown to an incredible magnitude that was not expected. In their early days, many said they wouldn't last. They incorporated in 1977. It is now 2010. My simple math yields that to be 33 years.
Remember, while I can accept your 7% niche argument as haven't attempted to validate it, that 7% is all Apple for the most part.
The remaining 93% is NOT all Microsoft.

Say what whoever wants to say to support one or the other, the fact remains Apple and Macs are not Beta. They are here for the long haul as they have proven.

BTW, I never bought a Beta but I did have 8-tracks, cassettes, vinyl records and oh, an AMC Gremlin. All long gone too.

[Blueface]

deleted as post duplicated

[Blueface]

Did some reading.
Thought I would share.

The iPhone gets the most press and the iPod sells in the largest quantities, but it's the Macintosh that really drives Apple's growth, says Gene Munster.

In the second installment of a multipart report on Apple's "3 Cylinder Engine," Piper Jaffray's chief Apple (AAPL) analyst looks at the Mac business over the next couple of years and likes what he sees. In particular:

Growth: After Apple introduced the Intel Macs, Mac sales grew 37% in 2007, more than double the industry-wide rate of 15%. Munster is modeling 2.0 to 2.1 million Macs for the March quarter (vs. the Street's 1.95 million). He believes Apple will continue to outpace its competitors with upgraded iMacs and Mac minis in the next 3 months and redesigned MacBooks and MacBook Pros in time for the '08 education season.
Market Share: According to IDC, Apple's worldwide market share grew from 2.4% in 2006 to 2.9% in 2007. (See chart below.) Munster is conservatively modeling global market share to remain flat this year, but he notes that enterprise sales account for 70% of the worldwide market, a segment Apple is not aggressively targeting. In the consumer market, where Apple does compete, he estimates the Mac's share is now 10% worldwide and an impressive 21% in the U.S.
Sales Price: While Apple has gained market share over the past three years, it has also been able to resist the industry trend of decreasing sales prices. In fact, it actually increased its average sales price (ASP) by more than $150 from December '05 to December '07. "The combination of increasing ASPs and rising market share is evidence of a compelling product line," writes Munster.

[mmblz]

Originally Posted by 357

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option. See how easy that "just works" or how intuitive it is. I will never need to emulate Mac OS X because every app I could ever possible want or need runs on Windows. I'm sure this is true of 99-100% of Windows users. I wonder what percentage of Mac users have to put their techie hat on to figure out how to emulate Windows? From their own admission it sounds like at least half of the Mac users who've been posting in this thread have had to at some point.

I use both every day. Actually, I use 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, XP, Vista, and Win 7 almost every day. The only reason I've ever "needed" Windows is for compiling/testing for work.
Macs are easier to use and have less problems. If you ever do "need" windows, VMWare Fusion is very easy to use and is a great product.

As far as running OSX on non-Apple hardware, first of all it is illegal. But even ignoring that, it's not going to give you two finger scrolling

[bazookajoe]

Originally Posted by 357

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option. See how easy that "just works" or how intuitive it is. I will never need to emulate Mac OS X because every app I could ever possible want or need runs on Windows. I'm sure this is true of 99-100% of Windows users. I wonder what percentage of Mac users have to put their techie hat on to figure out how to emulate Windows? From their own admission it sounds like at least half of the Mac users who've been posting in this thread have had to at some point.

This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent. Remeber the virus argument? To expand that line of thinking, why bother writing your application/game twice only to reach an additional 7% of the market? These kind of things become apparent to the software companies, especially in a recession.

Beta was a better format, much better picture than VHS. The fact that the world found the format irrelevant doesn't mean it was inferior. Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. have relatively small market shares. Since the world is made up of mostly followers, the last factor I would use to make a decision about what's best is the opinion of the masses. People often choose low cost over quality, that's why there are $29 dvd players and $1 cigars. I prefer to choose the best combination of quality and cost that fits my budget - I'd rather have less but better stuff than massive quantities of cheap stuff. Cheaper or more widely used simply doesn't equal "better".

Originally Posted by 357

BTW, Merry Christmas! I hope you guys are enjoying this as much as I am.

I am.

[AD720]

Originally Posted by 357

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant...

...This is just one of the pains of using an OS that the world has deemed irrelevent...

Year -- Net Sales (Mil USD)
2002 -- 5,247
2003 -- 6,207
2004 -- 8,279
2005 -- 13,931
2006 -- 19,315
2007 -- 24,006
2008 -- 32,479


Irrelevant? Niche market?

Originally Posted by AD720

As someone who does run a quote/unquote "hackintosh" I would love to know the method to get OS X running on any off the shelf laptop, such as the $449.99 Toshiba satellite, that gets all of the components working, including the wireless card, audio I/O, etc that a regular end user can do. (besides netbooks)

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.

[357]

Originally Posted by AD720

Year -- Net Sales (Mil USD)
2002 -- 5,247
2003 -- 6,207
2004 -- 8,279
2005 -- 13,931
2006 -- 19,315
2007 -- 24,006
2008 -- 32,479


Irrelevant? Niche market?

This is big time misleading. You are counting iPhones and iPods. If we starting counting Windows Mobile phones and Microsoft Zune players, not to mention Netbooks, PDAs, and cash registers that run Windows CE Apple's numbers would look pretty puny.

From Business Insider...
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...s-sinks-2009-4

Apple's Mac business leveled out after strong growth last year. U.S. Mac shipments were down 1% year-over-year, representing 7.4% of the market, according to Gartner. But that's a significant deceleration after the company grew U.S. shipments about 33% year-over-year during Q1 '08. (And grew U.S. shipments 8% year-over-year in Q4 '08, according to Gartner.)



These kinds of stats are a little more reliable then the web statistics. By web stats I mean those where the website collects OS info and comes up with a count of how many Windows vs Mac users visit them. Those might be a more accurate picture of active web users vs current sales/market share.

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.
[size=3]

There are a number of Hackintosh or Hackbook websites. Just about anything's possible with Google and a little savvy.

http://www.dailyblogged.com/83/dell-...-pro-tutorial/

http://www.hackintosh.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org/



Here's is a good deal I helped my mom pick out recently. She picked it up last night.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0320534

$749.99
Intel® Core(tm) 2 Duo Processor T6600 (2.2 GHz)
4GB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
CD/DVD Writer DVD+/-RW Drive
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 (512 MB)
10/100 Network
802.11N Wireless Mini Card
17.3" High Definition+WLED Display with TrueLife(tm)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)

My mom has some old, scratch that, really old financial apps. So I found her the specs I recommended with Windows 7 Pro. Professional allows you to run the Windows XP compatibility mode. Since all her apps run fine on XP, this will ensure that even old 8 bit & 16 bit apps will run fine on this x64 version of Windows 7. Windows 7 Professional also offers full system backup software built in.

I would also like to mention that there has been a ton of conjecture. I have done my best to backup my positions with credible links. Mind you I'm not talking about Op-Ed type columns full of more conjecture. I'm not pointing any fingers, but an opinion is just that. Masquerading one's opinon as fact is another thing.

By the way, here's a list of just some of the software not compatible wit Mac OS X. I know it's an old list but you get the idea...

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

If you want a more complete list, walk into Best Buy, Micro Center, etc and start looking at the side of software boxes (especially games). You'll find that a staggering percentage of them don't have a little Apple logo on them.

[357]

and just for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

NSFW (language)

[Titan410]

Originally Posted by 357

and just for fun...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

NSFW (language)

That's funny! Inaccurate, but Funny!

[King James]

Originally Posted by 357

This is big time misleading. You are counting iPhones and iPods. If we starting counting Windows Mobile phones and Microsoft Zune players, not to mention Netbooks, PDAs, and cash registers that run Windows CE Apple's numbers would look pretty puny.

From Business Insider...
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...s-sinks-2009-4

Apple's Mac business leveled out after strong growth last year. U.S. Mac shipments were down 1% year-over-year, representing 7.4% of the market, according to Gartner. But that's a significant deceleration after the company grew U.S. shipments about 33% year-over-year during Q1 '08. (And grew U.S. shipments 8% year-over-year in Q4 '08, according to Gartner.)



These kinds of stats are a little more reliable then the web statistics. By web stats I mean those where the website collects OS info and comes up with a count of how many Windows vs Mac users visit them. Those might be a more accurate picture of active web users vs current sales/market share.

Also this was not a totally hypothetical question.
[size=3]

There are a number of Hackintosh or Hackbook websites. Just about anything's possible with Google and a little savvy.

http://www.dailyblogged.com/83/dell-...-pro-tutorial/

http://www.hackintosh.com/

http://www.hackint0sh.org/



Here's is a good deal I helped my mom pick out recently. She picked it up last night.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0320534

$749.99
Intel® Core(tm) 2 Duo Processor T6600 (2.2 GHz)
4GB RAM
500GB Hard Drive
CD/DVD Writer DVD+/-RW Drive
7-in-1 Media Card Reader
ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4330 (512 MB)
10/100 Network
802.11N Wireless Mini Card
17.3" High Definition+WLED Display with TrueLife(tm)
Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-bit)

My mom has some old, scratch that, really old financial apps. So I found her the specs I recommended with Windows 7 Pro. Professional allows you to run the Windows XP compatibility mode. Since all her apps run fine on XP, this will ensure that even old 8 bit & 16 bit apps will run fine on this x64 version of Windows 7. Windows 7 Professional also offers full system backup software built in.

I would also like to mention that there has been a ton of conjecture. I have done my best to backup my positions with credible links. Mind you I'm not talking about Op-Ed type columns full of more conjecture. I'm not pointing any fingers, but an opinion is just that. Masquerading one's opinon as fact is another thing.

By the way, here's a list of just some of the software not compatible wit Mac OS X. I know it's an old list but you get the idea...

http://www.macintouch.com/leopard/compat.html

If you want a more complete list, walk into Best Buy, Micro Center, etc and start looking at the side of software boxes (especially games). You'll find that a staggering percentage of them don't have a little Apple logo on them.

The only problem with this entire debate is that both sides are trying to cite objective information for a subjective decision. Not that one shouldn't do research when buying a laptop, but it ultimately comes down to personal preference and there are machines in both camps capable of doing pretty much everything.

But I did notice you go to the "no games" arguement alot. Did he ever mention even playing games? I noticed its not in the first post in % of use, so why use that as an argument in this case?

[GreekGodX]

Originally Posted by King James

The only problem with this entire debate is that both sides are trying to cite objective information for a subjective decision. Not that one shouldn't do research when buying a laptop, but it ultimately comes down to personal preference and there are machines in both camps capable of doing pretty much everything.

But I did notice you go to the "no games" arguement alot. Did he ever mention even playing games? I noticed its not in the first post in % of use, so why use that as an argument in this case?

Jim you should win an award for best posts in this thread. You, shilala and a few others have some of the most relevant posts. No need for gaming on my end. I have a PS3 and my brother has a 360 so I got gaming covered.

A lot of people are right in saying buy what you like and are most happy/comfortable with. I like Apple the most. I'm most comfortable with a PC only because I've used it for so long. In the end I feel I'll be happy with a Apple.

Anyone know if any updates are coming out on either side? For example faster usb port? or anything like that?

I'm really enjoying the back and forth tho

[Footbag]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

Anyone know if any updates are coming out on either side? For example faster usb port? or anything like that?

SSUSB or USB 3.0 will be out sometime next year, likely later in the year. Don't know when it will hit the market though. SATA 3 should be a big performance boost as well, but will probably be included in the same redesigns as the SSUSB.

IT has been my experience that waiting for the next best thing in computers is futile.

[King James]

Originally Posted by 357

I'm sure all the beta max owners felt the same way. Beta max claimed to be better, smaller, etc. At first it held its niche market. Soon less and less titles were released on beta max. It wasn't long after that it became obvious; the world had deemed it irrelevant..

At some point you will need Windows. Most likely it'll be some appliction or game you want that isn't offered for Macs. Then you get to try and figure out how to use some emulator or dual-boot option.

your arguments are getting worse an worse IMO.

I'm a university student and have never "needed" windows... I haven't used windows for 6 years. If I ever "needed" I would run bootcamp on my Mac....which like almost every other program they have (iweb, iphoto, etc) couldn't be easier to set up....hell even there back up program (time machine) sets itself up.

And I don't care if only 1% of the market uses Apple... I don't have viruses and love it.



here is the 1% hard at work (probably on facebook)