Motorcyclists and non-riders , I would like opinions on this story

[icehog3]

They all have a Wyatt Earp complex? Guess I better go see a psychotherapist.

So if he had pulled out his ticket book, and the cyclist had pulled out a gun, I would be attending yet another cop's funeral.

I've been on the barrel end of guns too, and I unholster my weapon when dealing with the unknown often. I don't point it or put my finger on the trigger unless it looks like a deadly force situation. The cop in the video didn't point his either, it appeared to me that as soon as he realized he wasn't in danger he reholstered.

I am sorry you have had some bad experiences with cops, Marc. No need to generalize though. I have known cops who were killed by people who were older than age 63, and I have known cops that were killed by people who were physically handicapped. I will continue to unholster my weapon in situations similar to this, so that my Dad doesn't have to attend a cop's funeral.

[Neuromancer]

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

[68TriShield]

I disagree Marc.

[Neuromancer]

Originally Posted by 68TriShield

I disagree Marc.

There's no way I can say that my experiences as a firefighter are anything close to your experiences as a LEO...we were both doing something for the public good, and in both of our experiences we put our life on the line for civilians, however when we ran into a burning building we knew (for the most part) what we could expect, and I guess every situation for a LEO leaves you little time to figure out what's going down with no pre-knowledge whatsoever, so I agree with your right to disagree, Tom...

[68TriShield]

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

There's no way I can say that my experiences as a firefighter are anything close to your experiences as a LEO...we were both doing something for the public good, and in both of our experiences we put our life on the line for civilians, however when we ran into a burning building we knew (for the most part) what we could expect, and I guess every situation for a LEO leaves you little time to figure out what's going down with no pre-knowledge whatsoever, so I agree with your right to disagree, Tom...

err,I'm not Tom. I like Tom though

[stevieray]

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

Perhaps the Trooper saw the motorcycle as a lethal weapon. Watch any traffic stop and you will see an officer walk up to a pulled over vehicle with his/her hand on their holstered sidearm until they deem the situation safe. In this situation there wasn't time for that with the officer walking up face to face with the perp.

[mmblz]

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster?

He was going 140 and doing a wheelie. Clearly he is not sane. Since he is not sane, who knows what he will do when pulled over.

I think the initial stop was not unreasonable. The punk got off easy. After posting the video, what ensued was unusual - but if it gets this asshole off the street, I don't really care.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by mmblz

He was going 140 and doing a wheelie. Clearly he is not sane. Since he is not sane, who knows what he will do when pulled over.

I think the initial stop was not unreasonable. The punk got off easy. After posting the video, what ensued was unusual - but if it gets this asshole off the street, I don't really care.

This jackhole endangers the safety and lives of dozens of people but cries foul when it's his own ass that's threatened. Anybody see the irony here?

[jitzy]

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

[neoflex]

Originally Posted by jitzy

If you look at the video the marked car was right there also, he didn't come later he was right there so yes this jackass knew what he was doing. Like I said as for pulling the gun, if you run from the cops theres usually a reason. I would of had my firearm out in that situation too and like him holstered it when I saw I didn't need it out. We could all argue this till were blue in the face and get no where with it but I'm gonna end my stance on this with this, I wear a ballistic vest at work everyday, winter and summer alike and its not on me cause its cool or makes me look bad ass I wear it cause the fact of the matter is I need to. Every job I go to and every car stop I do has the potential to end badly and when one of those stops happens to end with a 100+ mph chase then yes the gun comes out.

I just watched the original footage again after reading your thread but if you watch it in it's entirety the guy is far from running from anything and I actually feel a little more sympathy for him. If you watch at the beginning he is moving with the flow of traffic than he gets on it and obviously does a wheelie which is a boneheaded move for a heavily congested I-95 but if you watch from the 1/2 way point to the end the guy is back to moving with the flow of traffic and actually gets passed by a clapped out looking Accord a couple times and even gets passed by an Acura TL a couple times right before he exits the Interstate so he clearly isn't running from anything. Supposedly the cops report said when he exited his vehicle the biker revved the bike as if he were going to run. If you catch the version I posted with audio, that is clearly BS and there was also no mention of the weapon being drawn in the report which I don't know if that is required or not so it may be a moot point.
Yes, if this guy didn't ride like a jackass he wouldn't have been pulled over but who here hasn't done something stupid without thinking and had it happen at the most inopportune time. I know last summer I was on a country back road with no cars and at an intersection as I made a right I got on it a little too hard and the front wheel came up off the ground about two feet for a short distance and there happened to be a cop coming the opposite direction a little distance away and I am sure he saw the headlight go up and back down.
Of course he banged a U-turn and pulled me over which he should have. I was calm and polite using sir and told him that I honestly didn't mean for the front wheel to come up as I knew that was why he pulled me. I told him I deserved a ticket but it was an honest mistake. He was cool about the whole thing ran my license and came back and told me he wasn't going to ticket me and just told me to be more careful and to not ride like an idiot. He was probably also surprised to see a 30+ year old on the bike and not some snot nosed teen but he didn't come out of his car gun drawn and I don't think he needed to nor did the cop in the video. Prob would have been more effective if he came out of the car with badge in hand rather than his weapon. Again, I am not a cop so I may be totally out of line but the guy definitely was not running. If he were the cop wouldn't have a snow balls chance in hell of catching him on that bike on the Interstate, and if he were I doubt he would have kept with the flow of traffic the majority of the video and even stop at the red light behind a line of cars. Not that I ever recommend it as a traffic violation easily becomes a felony but if a bike wants to outrun a car, I would say 95% of the time he is getting away. So the assessment that this guy was running is wrong. I think there are a lot of holes in the story on both sides and both sides are guilty of being wrong and raiding the guys house was clearly questionable at best.
These GoPro helmet cams are becoming very very popular and I have seen other traffic stops taped in videos before and the outcomes were never like this one or even resulted in a warrant and a house being raided. Just go to Youtube and do a search for GoPro and you'll come up with pages of videos. Most of the traffic stops that have been taped are pretty standard even when the bikers were caught being jackasses. I dunno I think both parties on this one need to reflect on their actions and make changes in the future.

[neoflex]

Probably should have played out more like this http://www.youtube.com/user/SuperMot...16/FK6_iAVcfIY

[mithrilG60]

Originally Posted by neoflex

I just watched the original footage again after reading your thread but if you watch it in it's entirety the guy is far from running from anything and I actually feel a little more sympathy for him. If you watch at the beginning he is moving with the flow of traffic than he gets on it and obviously does a wheelie which is a boneheaded move for a heavily congested I-95 but if you watch from the 1/2 way point to the end the guy is back to moving with the flow of traffic and actually gets passed by a clapped out looking Accord a couple times and even gets passed by an Acura TL a couple times right before he exits the Interstate so he clearly isn't running from anything.

Easy for you to say that now having had the benefit of seeing the sections of the video the motorcyclist wants the world to see. Not so easy for that officer to determine in real time considering this guy came into his line of sight stunting at high speed on a crowded public highway and that's all he had on which to base his decision to pursue and pull over.

Just because you obey the speed limit 9 times out of 10 doesn't mean you shouldn't get a ticket if on that 10th time you happen to be unlucky enough to speed through a radar trap or whip past an unmarked cruiser.

The warrants after the fact were well over the top IMHO and should be dealt with by the appropriate means. The rest of it was 100% on the biker and he should be thankful that's all that happened to him, specifically he should be grateful that it actually was a police officer who stepped out of that car and not some road raging crazy.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

Okay, Tom...the guy was speeding, doing 100+ on a crotch rocket...why would any cop automatically think it was a gun situation and pull his weapon out of his holster? Do you do that every time you stop someone for speeding or running a red light? I think the cop went way overboard on his reaction to a guy on a crotch rocket...we've all seen them flying down the highway at 100+...you should see what they're like on I-95 coming out of Miami...why does that warrent this cop pulling out his piece automatically? Do you do that for traffic stops? Just cause someone's doing 100?

Remember that we have the benefit of knowing the context of the motorcyclist's actions while watching the video. The cop, on the other hand, likely does not know why the cyclist is going 140+ MPH. Could he have just committed a forcible felony, (i.e., robbed a bank, killed his ex-wife, etc)? The cop doesn't know. Could he be willing to kill to avoid being caught if he did just commit a crime? The cop doesn't know. We do know because we have the luxury of seeing the video from a hot-dog cycling website...the cop did not have that luxury.

In this situation, I would have had my sidearm unholstered and "at the ready" until I felt the danger of the unknown had passed. It seems to me that is exactly what this cop did. Should he have yelled "police" as he approached? Absolutely, but fear and adrenaline sometimes make people act with a "survival" instinct first.

And without the benefit of knowing the context of the motorcyclist's actions, as we do after the fact, I completely disagree with the idea that this cop should have "known" for a fact that his guy wasn't running from something.

[aich75013]

Originally Posted by icehog3

In this situation, I would have had my sidearm unholstered and "at the ready" until I felt the danger of the unknown had passed. It seems to me that is exactly what this cop did. Should he have yelled "police" as he approached? Absolutely, but fear and adrenaline sometimes make people act with a "survival" instinct first.

While I agree and can definately understand your point, I have to admit that having someone pull a gun, and not immediately identifying themselves as a PO would scare the $#!+ out of me.
(I don't ride a bike because I'm afraid the ability to go that fast might have an influence on the way I drive.)

[replicant_argent]

Just a side note on the "if the douchebag on the bike had been a CCW holder" front.

CCW holders, are, in overwhelming statistical fact, about 10 times less likely to commit ANY kind of crime compared to the general population. A little tidbit that stuck in my brain during my own instruction.

The guy on the bike was a giant flapping douchenozzle for stunting in traffic. The cop should have been screaming "POLICE, GET OFF THE BIKE AND ON THE GROUND" with a badge in one hand AND his gun in the other at the stop, IMO. (Same thing with some dipstick in a car zigzagging in and out of traffic at triple digits, we can't have double standards, now can we?) Backup in a squad was obviously on its way, seconds difference at the stop. That would have been a good situation.
In this world, with the explosion of cheap cameras, 99% of phones, and vid recorders you can strap on just about anything, if you are out your front door, you are in the public eye, all privacy goes sideways. Ham handed warrants, detention, and harassment over this is deplorable.
I do agree with Sean, that guy should be beaten by a group of his peers for his asshattery. They are the ones paying the exorbitant insurance rates by class of bike as a result of his, and actions like his, directly or indirectly.
BTW, I feel the same about guys that ride without helmets and then bust open their skulls.
Let me go get my fireproof suit.

[St. Lou Stu]

No one here could have been seriously injured by what happened in this video.
The people in the video could have been. If it takes pulling a weapon to prevent injury or death (to anyone) then DO IT.

The only swollen headed douchebag I saw was the guy on the bike.

At the end of the day everyone went home.

I imagine that the officer in the video will make it home many more days than someone who second guesses pulling his sidearm.

[replicant_argent]

btw.. just watched the short clip with audio, and quite frankly, I didn't see a "glimpse" worth anything of a badge on his hip, certainly not displayed for positive ID. My eyes go towards GUN and POSSIBLE CRAZY guy, unless he shows me a badge right in my face. Let's face it, though, put yourself in Stupids boots for a minute. You just got done stunting like an asshat on the freeway for a while, and someone pulls in front of you with a gun off the exit, and you may have glimpsed a cherried patrol or trooper on it's way.... Chances are DimBulb knew it was a cop, and that he was just a naughty dipshit guilty squid, and the chances of a civvie pulling a weapon on him were slim.

[jitzy]

There is no way this guy didn't know that the guy was a cop there was a marked car there also. This guy on the bike was ****ing around and put himself, the off duty cop and the on duty cops life's in danger not to mention all the people he did pass while pulling this stunt. The biggest thing is all of you guys that were pulled over and ****ed with KNOW 100% that your not a threat to the police but the police officer has ZERO of knowing your not. To many people come up with the nonsense of I was no threat and yes you may be no threat but how in the world is the cop supposed to know that. We don't all have that TV sense of knowing all. I handcuff people who are possible threats all the time and I tell them this is for YOUR safety as well as mine and when the situation ends NO ONE GETS HURT. Sometimes someones ego may me hurt but guess what you get to go home to your family and so do I. As deadly as a firearm may be it's certainly saved more life's than it's taken.

[King James]

First off, not being an officer or having any of the knowledge or training involved in being/becoming one.... I won't pretend to know or make opinions on when an officer feels it is a necessary enough threat to pull out their gun. There are obvious situations when it is or is not necessary, but I don't think this falls into that category and is obviously one of the officer's discression. In the case of plain clothed officer I do personally think he should have been more vocal about making the biker aware he was an officer, but do not think he was out of line for drawing his gun (and not pointing it at the guy) especially since he was going 140+ on the freeway and then started to back away.

[1badhog07]

Cant we all just get along......sarcasism