The Official Asylum Reef Tank Thread

[shilala]

I picked up a few more corals down in Mogadore the other day. Finally got some yellow polyps. I forget what the other two things are called.
We got a shrimp and a spiny urchin, too.

I spent money on more cigars.

[shilala]

Lance, I've got so many freakin cigars that I can't even find them all. I did buy five or six boxes of "save for later" stuff last week, though.

Now I'm really strongly considering LED lighting for the tank.
Will you guys please take a look at this for me, and see what you think?
Here's where I am so far...
I'm trying to figure out how to get from watts/gallon to lumens/gallon to size my fixture. I already plan on getting the biggest one at that Foster Smith link cause I think it'll fit my tank.
The reef capable lighting are rated for 50,000 hours, which is 17 years of 8 hour days. Right now I run a little over 8 hours, but I need to back that up.
The fixture is $365, you never replace bulbs. In 17 years, I'd spend somewhere between $1600 and $3200 for t5 lamps. I'd also have to replace the fixture at least twice, and that'd cost about $1,000.
So it's t5's for $2600-$4200 or led for under $800. (Apparantly I need two fixtures because these things really focus the lights into a very thin, straight down wall of light.)
With two fixtures, I'd be down to 108 watts from my current 432 watts, so I'm looking at 1/4 the energy use and I'm guessing 1/4 the heat.

Being that I was already going to spill $200 for tubes, I'm really looking at $530.00 to make this upgrade. I'm sure I can sell my 48" t5's on Craigslist or to one of the reefers in my club, bringing down the price even more.

The one drawback is that there's a polycarbonate lens on this thing that creates a "realistic ocean shimmer effect" that is only realistic to people who have never been in the water. It's more like a strobe light cranked all the way up to max, almost constant on, or at least that's how I perceive it when I look at them.
I'm hoping that's more prominent with one light than with two.

Will you guys please take a look when you have time and let me know what you think? I could use a bunch more negatives so I can weigh this out a bit better.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by shilala

Now I'm really strongly considering LED lighting for the tank

I have not done much if any reading since they came out, right around the time I bought my T5
hood. I was simply buying closeout for price. So there was no way on the LEDs. However, like
anything there are kinks to work out, and those first fixtures were WROUGHT with problems. In fact
I think that many of the problems are still there. Random LED failures, entire strip failures, and
NOWHERE near the durational performance they were sold at. "It's the last light fixture you'll
EVER BUY!"...."All the light with none of the heat!"...."LEDs Don't burn out like light bulbs!"
None of which turned out to be true. I say stay with what you have, ESPECIALLY since
you got drug into starting this back up at great cost to yourself. Let the newness of your rig
wear off, have a few disasters again, and then think, "Hmm, good thing I didn't spend $800 on LEDs.

I have a "night lite" led on my fixture, and i can tell you it IS like a semi-strobe effect, but it DOES
produce shimmer in a way. I guess if you are going to extrapolate out to 17 years, it's a good buy,
but as with any reef tank, I predict disaster, the LAST disaster, way before then, lol.

Lumens per watt, LEDs are the same as T5. LEDs randomly go bad for no apparent reason. They actually do generate a good deal of heat. 100 watts of LED is the same lumens as 100 watts of T5s. This is what keeps me from upgrading. HIDs are the most lumens per watt and I get about two years for about 100 bucks. I have 2 80 watt CFs that run pure actinics for color affects with two 14k HIDs. $150 every two years. Yep, 960 watts. Along with the main pump, skimmer pump, two little pumps for the calcium reactor and a circulating pump in the tank, a chiller and two 230 watt heaters, I need my own substation to run this rig.
Happy reefing!

[shilala]

Lance, From what I ciphered (before I went insane from reading light buld tech specs) is that led's give up 166% more lumens per watt at minimum. The biggie is that the lumenosity is focused and drills way deeper into the water.
That said, I could find nowhere where an outfit would say "just use led's on your tank". The best outfits say you should use them to compliment your other lighting for technical reasons as an advantage.
They just aren't ready for primetime yet, period.

If you're trying to use a watts per gallon comparison, led's require 14-28% of wattage for the same amount of useful light.

Here's an awesome writeup on all types of aquarium lighting. The reading is about as dry as a popcorn fart, but there's lots of great info if you can stand to read it. It's recent, and was just updated 4 days ago.

All that said, the two fixtures I picked should be a good direct replacement for my t5's. I'm not gonna chance it, though. I'll just get some new lamps and keep this fixture for another four years if it'll last that long. By then, price should come down and all the bugs should be worked out.

I just checked specs on a few different technical sites and was seeing lm/W for HIDs in the low 100s, for T5s & T2s in the upper 90s, Some LEDs are in the mid 100s but these are the wrong color temp, like 4500K or lower. The CREE type seem to be the most efficient. They are nice in flashlights.

That picture of the plant growth on your link proved the plants weren't getting enough light. Everyone knows plants will stretch out if there is not enough light. Or, if they are low light plants, the small ones were getting too much light. An inclusion like this in an article makes me begin to doubt some of the rest of it.

I know I have too much light, plus I have direct sunlight, but I got most of my stuff free, for starters. Since then it has not been so free. I run 2 1/2 hrs. in the morning and 4 1/2 hrs. in the evening to stretch the day out all year long.

I am a little tired off maintaining things. Too much of my time is being drained by routines. Anyone want a good deal on a reef tank?

[SteveH]

Hey guys - Figured I've been around here long enough to warrant an intro.....

This is my first forray into SW, although I've had FW for many years. The tank has been up for about 8mo...Yes I know still no fish - but between a crazy work schedule and traveling, I just haven't gotten a chance to sit down and figure out the load list. Right now there's assorted zoas and star polyps, pulsing xenia, and some interesting non-photosynthetic hitch-hikers. I also have one pincushion, two golden coral banded shrimp (mated pair), and the usual assortment CUC. Also on the way I have a decorator crab - figured it would do a better job of fragging than I do =)
I also just got a mini-carpet last night - seems to be doing real well in the tank already...

Anyway, as it does not exist without pics - here's a couple:

[shilala]

Lookin good, Steve!!!
I thought those goofy decorator crabs were a big no-no?

[SteveH]

Not that I was aware of ? Granted.....If you have softies that you like where they are; then the decorator isn't for you.....However its my understanding that they don't feed on the corals; only use them for decoration.
I'll keep an eye on him. Worse comes to worse my sump is large enough to keep him in...Im sure he'll enjoy all the oddities down there.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Not that I was aware of ? Granted.....If you have softies that you like where they are; then the decorator isn't for you.....However its my understanding that they don't feed on the corals; only use them for decoration.
I'll keep an eye on him. Worse comes to worse my sump is large enough to keep him in...Im sure he'll enjoy all the oddities down there.

I looked into them cause I thought they were cool. They'll tear off a chunk of anything to stick on themselves, and just keep at it constantly. I guess they can dessimate a small reef. Bummed me out cause I wanted one, too.
Will you please let us know how it goes?

I just remembered where I read about them. I have a book called "The top 101 marine invertebrates" (I just ran up and got it). It adds 33 species you should definately avoid. Decorator crabs were the #12 worst. They not only decorate themselves with all your stuff, but they are also predatory on other inverts.
There's a real good chance he'll eat your mated shrimp real quick, so be super careful, my brother.
Maybe throw him in the sump right from the get-go and give him some stuff he can decorate with?
I'm glad I dragged the book out. We just carried home a longspined sea urchin the other day. It's not only venemous, but the 33rd worst critter to keep in a reef. How are we doin, my friend?

[SteveH]

Wow - thanks for the heads up ! Ya, I'll put him in the sump for sure....Im not that worried about the corals as the shrimp. Interesting; as my source where I got him I really find that they are on the money. Here's what they told me:

"A slow moving and somewhat sloth like creature, the Decorator Crab is one of those critters that makes this hobby enjoyable. By attaching sponges, algae and even soft corals to their carapace, they are able to "disappear" in plain sight. They are omnivores, and will scavenge and pick at live rock. They eat some algae, but we wouldn't consider them a cleaner. They are often too slow to catch food during feeding time, but they generally are very good at scavenging. When frightened or stressed, they will remain motionless, relying on their camouflage to protect them. If you have a lot of expensive zoas, maybe this isn't the guy for you. If you don't mind a small mobile frag, then this guy is reef safe enough. Grows to have a 1'' wide or so carapace" (reefcleaners.org)

From other research I've done, it seems that this guy (Pelia sp.) is one of the safer ones. The Spider Decorator (Stenorhynchus sp) from what I've read are more destructive.

The reason I picked him up was due to my fondness of them when I see them in the wild. They are quite amusing ! Here's one I photographed off the coast of Parguera, PR.


Living a couple of mangroves down, I found this pair of Coral Banded Shrimp, which although they aren't considered cleaners - took a fondness to running all over the camera and my hands.

[shilala]

It's been a few years since I've been in the water, Steve. Take that back, I was snorkeling the mangroves in the Keys last winter, but there were record lows and I mostly just got to check out dead stuff. Thousands upon thousands of urchins, and every other thing you can think of.
Keep sharing the pics, will ya? If I can find mine (just built a new computer), I'll try to post some up.

[SteveH]

Hehe - sure. Don't want to hijack the thread w/diving pics....but here's just a couple more:








Hehe - look close.....I watched that guy for about 10mins as he was watching me. I was hoping to catch him eating; but I think he was just resting after his meal.

[shilala]

Nice blue polyps.

[shilala]

Well, I decided not to go LED.
I ordered lamps and food. Another 300 bucks down the chute. I think I could switch to a hard core heroin hobby and be money ahead.
I have to admit, now that the problems have subsided, I'm enjoying this reef more and more every day. I'm afraid that my beautiful wife may once again be right. I'm starting to get glad we set it back up.

I think I mentioned picking up a few more corals the other day. Yellow polyps were one, and I think the grassy mat is a pipe organ coral. The beige thing with blue eyeballs that comes right out of rock is called a gonapora? No idea how to spell it.

Now if I can get some different red and blue polyps to grow some mats, I'd be thrilled. A couple more starfish, and some pulsing xenia would round it out and I think my livestock acquisition phase will be over. Key word, think.

Got my new lights in.

[OLS]

I think goniapora is a coral too far. Many super-serious reefers can't keep them alive. Their diet leads to
fouled water I THINK is the knock. Many are sold, few survive. But don't take my word for it, nevr had one.
I WOULD SAY though that if you are going to get one, let me send you a frag of this purple gorgonian.
That Goniapora is going to want to eat, and it can be bad for your tank in some ways. If you have a good
overflow system, most of the food is going to go into the sump/skimmer. You need something with a LOT of
polyps to capture the food that the gonio can't eat. Like a lot of palythoa or other sea mat type organisms.
The Goniopora will want enough cyclopeze to survive, and it can foul a tank up if it's the only coral feeding
in that manner. I guess you could turn the pumps off and target feed. I have so many polyps with tentacles
in my little 20 gallon, the cyclopeze disappears in minutes.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by OLS

I think goniapora is a coral too far. Many super-serious reefers can't keep them alive. Their diet leads to
fouled water I THINK is the knock. Many are sold, few survive. But don't take my word for it, nevr had one.
I WOULD SAY though that if you are going to get one, let me send you a frag of this purple gorgonian.
That Goniapora is going to want to eat, and it can be bad for your tank in some ways. If you have a good
overflow system, most of the food is going to go into the sump/skimmer. You need something with a LOT of
polyps to capture the food that the gonio can't eat. Like a lot of palythoa or other sea mat type organisms.
The Goniopora will want enough cyclopeze to survive, and it can foul a tank up if it's the only coral feeding
in that manner. I guess you could turn the pumps off and target feed. I have so many polyps with tentacles
in my little 20 gallon, the cyclopeze disappears in minutes.

Brad, I have purple gorgonia and all kinds of meat eaters. I target feed and change tons of water. I just changed 30 gallons the other day.
I'll take a video so you can see my stock and send it up to youtube. I did that just a bit ago, but we have more stuff now.
I've changed 90 gallons of water in a very short time cause of the hair algae. I got rid of every bit of it (queue the parade).
Thank You very much for the offer, and if I already didn't have some, I'd have taken you up in a second.
I should also say I was gonna move my gorgonia but it's already grown fast to the rock I dropped it in. It's a crazy fast grower.
Oh, I ordered freeze-dried cyclopeeze yesterday. I feed phyto regularly. When the frozen cyclopeeze becomes available, I'll order some of that. I spent $100 on just food yesterday. lol

I'll post pics of what I think is goniapora. You guys can tell me then, k?

I kept a Goniapora alive for two years. It is generally believed to be not a responsible thing to buy a Goni. They seldom survive for long and it would be best to leave them in the wild.
Pavona are nice. You need to keep your calcium up is all.