LOST Notes

[Cigargal]

Glad boy Ben showed up-but it seems the adult Ben is at a different time than the boy Ben, as is Locke, the pilot and Sun. Not many new surprise-setting up everyone's new position in the pecking order.

What about Ethan? He is born to a Dharma woman in the mid-seventies, but when we originally meet him he is with Ben and the Others-He should have died in the massacre, don't you think?

And where is Daniel?

[Mugen910]

Season 5 Episode 9 "Namaste"

1. Baby Ethan. How does he go from Dharma to Other? Assuming that the Purge took place in December 1992 Ethan was just a teenager when his people were wiped out by Ben and the Others. Did Ethan befriend Ben, or was he taken by the Others? If Ethan did befriend Ben and help bring down Dharma from the inside, then he helped kill his own father (Horace) - just like Ben and Locke both did. Recap on Ethan (assuming the baby grows up to be the Ethan we all know and love) - he was the Other who infiltrated the Losties' camp, abducted pregnant Claire, then got killed by Charlie after he came back to abduct Claire again.

2. Lapidus, the Ajira flight and the runway. Before the Ajira plane "landed" we see the co-pilot's surprise as they flash to day from night. This is similar to the helicopter rides to and from the freighter - either they gained or lost a few hours during the time storm, just like Daniel's model rocket. Also, when the co-pilot radioed for help we hear the original island radio transmission playing. Remember that Rousseau had actually turned the message off about two seasons ago so we may have proof that things can change and that Faraday was wrong (things can change). Following the one time string theory, hearing that message in 2007 would be an impossibility.

The existence of the runway is tremendous because it slaps us in the face with one big fact: all along, Ben knew that he'd need it. He'd instructed the Others to build it (remember that Sawyer and Kate were prisoners at this time and helped build it) without telling them why.

Why didn't Sun flash off the flight with the other Oceanic 6? Maybe because she couldn't exactly recreate her original flight circumstance. In this episode she tells Ilana "I was traveling alone" whereas the first time around she was traveling with Jin. Ms. Hawking said that the results would be unpredictable if the original flight was not perfectly recreated.

3. Sun and Lapidus meet Christian. There was definitely a suggestion to connect Christian and Smokey by having the two in the same vicinity at the same time. "You have a bit of a journey ahead of you,'' Christian told Sun. Creepy! (By the way, I am LOVING Lapidus. He's such a great character and I hope he's in the show full time now.) Again, it seems like Faraday's theory may be wrong... Someone has changed something in the past to create the timeline Sun and Lapidus are now seeing.

The Whispers in this scene say "Not on the List at all" or something like that. Meanwhile in 1977, the Dharma member is asking Kate whether she's been checked in at the Processing Center, and what her name is. He says, "You're not on my list...and you're not on the sub's manifest either." Similarities...

4. The Swan Hatch is still being built. I was under the impression that it was the energy from the frozen wheel and/ or the Jughead bomb that drew the Dharma people to the island in the first place. Hmmm. Guess not. Perplexing, no?

We learned in this episode that the Swan hatch is most likely being built in hostile territory. This would explain why it's buried, and why the entrance door to the Swan Hatch is kept hidden. It makes sense that the Others buried Jughead far away from their camp - this would make it easier for Dharma to bury an entire station beyond their truce-line without being found out. If Dharma registered a strange energy source coming from the ground they might build a station just to study it.

5. In the March 20, 2007 official podcast the show's creator said he did not believe The Others knew about the Swan hatch; however, he acknowledged that the Others might have observed the Swan through the monitors in the Pearl Hatch, after they took over the other Dharma hatches. Therefore, Radzinksy and Kelvin were not killed during the purge along with the rest of Dharma.

6. Sawyer and Jack.... Jack took Sawyer's speech surprisingly well. He knew Sawyer was right... that people died because Jack reacted without always thinking things through. This new Jack (who now has faith since Locke died) seems to be just rolling with it. I wish the two would work together without all the power struggles. Ugh, boys.

7. When Sayid's federal officer was awakened by Caesar after the crash she whispered ''Sarah.'' The only Sarah on the show so far has been Jack's ex-wife.

8. We finally get to meet Radzinsky! Remember that he was Kelvin Inman's partner inside the Swan Hatch before Desmond crashed on the island. We only know about him from what Kelvin told Desmond. Radzinsky was the creator of the blast door map (see attached), which he worked on with the aid of his photographic memory. He discovered how to fake a lockdown, which made it possible to work on the map, as the door was lowered during this time. He also edited the Swan Orientation film. Kelvin explained to Desmond that, while he was asleep, Radzinsky committed suicide by putting a shotgun in his mouth and firing it, causing a blood stain on the ceiling. Because of the protocol Kelvin had to bury him within 108 minutes.

So, if Radzinsky was part of Dharma and knew all about the hatches why did he create that map on the blast door? The map suggests that he is trying to figure things out, but he would already know these things (location of the hatches, etc).

Before Kelvin arrived on the island he was involved with the U.S. military in the Gulf War. During the war, he was connected to Sam Austen, Kate's stepfather, and manipulated Sayid, forcing him to act as a translator and torture Iraqi prisoners for information (although later Kelvin reveals that he can speak Arabic himself). After the war ended, Kelvin transferred a handcuffed Sayid to a deserted area and gave him money, including "bus fare" back to Ramadi. Addressing Sayid's disapproval of the torture methods he forced him to use, he tells him in Arabic that it will come in handy in the future before releasing him.

9. Another thing about Christian in the Dharma building. He points out that there's a 1978 recruitment photo on the wall too. Does this mean we'll see another year's worth of our main characters living in Dharma time? Originally the purge happened in 1992, but there were no recruitment photos on the wall after 1978 this time around. Did Dharma just stop recruiting in 1978? Not originally because Kelvin was recruited AFTER he was in the war with Sayid in 1991!

10. Remember how I emailed that the seasons of LOST are running parallel (Season 4 echoed season 3, season 5 echoes season 2). Sayid has become season 5's Henry Gale! A prisoner who must lie about his true identity for a greater purpose.

11. So, now that Ben and Sayid are meeting in 1977, will 2007 Ben have a new memory of Sayid (like Desmond did of Faraday)?

[MikeyC]

I'm not sure that I'm on board with the whole "jughead" is buried where they built the Swan theory. I'm not aware that nuclear bombs are magnetic. Plus, the hatch imploded not exploded as a nuke would do.

[ucla695]

After watching this week's episode last night and during my daily commute this morning, I thought of the parallelism of Ben and Sayid. Especially after he was captured by Jin and the other Darma guy. My memory is sketchy, but the food thing in the camp rings a bell too. Didn't Locke offer food and was sympathetic to Ben when he was captured? Is Sayid the new Ben and will do whatever is necessary? I can't help but wonder????

[dannysguitar]

WHOA! Last night's episode blew my freakin mind! I'm still trying to digest everything!

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by dannysguitar

WHOA! Last night's episode blew my freakin mind! I'm still trying to digest everything!

Wha???

[Mugen910]

There is no way Sayid was successful...No way at all!

[kaisersozei]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

There is no way Sayid was successful...No way at all!

Couple things occured to me on this:

If Sawyer & Company are actually on the same timeline as the original Dharma Initiative, then I agree. Ms. Hawking was a firm believer in not being able to alter an event timeline once it was established (e.g., Desmond & the dude with the red shoes.) However, we have seen how the Losties--Locke in particular--have been able to alter future events by interacting with people in the past (Richard, Jughead, etc.), so I'm not so sure now...

What if the island reset to the 70s and is now on a NEW timeline (i.e., it's along a different path/node?) Can't the Losties impact that timeline, so that Sayid could be successful? And what would that do to the Ben who is stuck in the present along a different timeline with Lapidus & Sun?


On a related topic: Ben continues to get his ass kicked week after week. This time by dear old dad.

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

Couple things occured to me on this:

If Sawyer & Company are actually on the same timeline as the original Dharma Initiative, then I agree. Ms. Hawking was a firm believer in not being able to alter an event timeline once it was established (e.g., Desmond & the dude with the red shoes.) However, we have seen how the Losties--Locke in particular--have been able to alter future events by interacting with people in the past (Richard, Jughead, etc.), so I'm not so sure now...

What if the island reset to the 70s and is now on a NEW timeline (i.e., it's along a different path/node?) Can't the Losties impact that timeline, so that Sayid could be successful? And what would that do to the Ben who is stuck in the present along a different timeline with Lapidus & Sun?


On a related topic: Ben continues to get his ass kicked week after week. This time by dear old dad.

nice...didn't even think of the Timeline resetting.

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

Couple things occured to me on this:

If Sawyer & Company are actually on the same timeline as the original Dharma Initiative, then I agree. Ms. Hawking was a firm believer in not being able to alter an event timeline once it was established (e.g., Desmond & the dude with the red shoes.) However, we have seen how the Losties--Locke in particular--have been able to alter future events by interacting with people in the past (Richard, Jughead, etc.), so I'm not so sure now...

What if the island reset to the 70s and is now on a NEW timeline (i.e., it's along a different path/node?) Can't the Losties impact that timeline, so that Sayid could be successful? And what would that do to the Ben who is stuck in the present along a different timeline with Lapidus & Sun?


On a related topic: Ben continues to get his ass kicked week after week. This time by dear old dad.

Originally Posted by Mugen910

nice...didn't even think of the Timeline resetting.

Yeah! Nice! Wha???

[Mugen910]

LOST 5 - Episode 10 "He's Our You"
1. Young Sayid's sacrificial act (killing the chicken) reminded me of Mr. Eko's flashback, in which warlords ordered Eko's brother Yemi to kill an unarmed man or be killed himself. Yemi couldn't do it. To save his life, Eko stepped up and did the deed.

2. The book that young Ben brings to Sayid is "A Separate Reality." The text is basically a thesis on the need for psychotropic drugs to achieve a proper state for seeing an alternate reality.

3. "You never brought me a sandwich" spoken by Ben's dad, Roger. This is the same line Ben gave Juliet back when she was bringing Jack all those great lunches in season 3 at the Hydra Station.

4. Radzinsky threatened to call Ann Arbor, Michigan for guidance on what to do with Sayid. If you remember correctly, the hippie couple who started the Dharma Initiative were Gerald and Karen DeGroot (at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor). We saw them in the Swan and Pearl Hatch Orientation films.

5. Remember when Goodwin's wife, Harper, told Juliet (Ben's crush at the time) "you look so much like her". Perhaps adult Ben liked Juliet because she reminded him of someone he had a crush on when he was a kid in Dharmaville... Juliet! Hahahaha!

6. Themes we've seen before - mind altering drugs, a teepee-like sweat lodge, pulling a gun to shoot someone to fix a mess. From the season 3 episode "Further Instructions" where Locke's flashback revealed he lived with pot-growing hippies who were infiltrated by an FBI agent named Eddie. The on-island scenes in that episode showed Locke in a sweat lodge experimenting with drugs to help him realize his purpose on the island. I love how this show repeats themes!

7. Sawyer's Long Con? When Sawyer and Richard met to discuss the business of Paul's body (2 weeks ago) perhaps Sawyer told Richard that his people will help orchestrate the Purge. This may be why Richard tells Ben he'll have to "be very patient". I believe Sawyer is playing the Dharma Initiative and keeping his friends in the dark for their own safety. He's good at pulling a long con (remember how he pulled a long con on Cassidy and on the Losties to get the guns?).

8. Popular opinion is that Ben knew he had to solidify Sayid's killing nature and his hatred for Ben so that when returning to the past, Sayid would shoot him. It seems that Sayid's hunting down and killing of Widmore's buddies never really meant anything in the grand scheme of things. Not only were these killings unnecessary, they might not even have been related to anything other than planting the seeds of murder in Sayid's brain. To hone his killing instinct. Ben orchestrated the whole thing. He even lied about how Locke died so that Sayid would spring back into action to protect Hurley. In summary... Ben wanted Sayid to shoot his younger self and helped him reach the mental/ emotional state he would need to be in to shoot an innocent child for the greater good.

9. Maybe Ben getting shot in 1977 will somehow delay or prevent him from joining the hostiles (I'm assuming he survives the gun shot)? Maybe the purge will be avoided? Somehow 2007 Ben understands that getting shot in the past will cause ripples through time that will change things in a direction favorable to his master plan.

10. A theory I read and liked... "Have you considered that maybe the 2004 the 815ers were in was never meant to be? Maybe by going back in time and changing things, Sawyer and friends are course correcting flukes in the past that weren't supposed to happen. Things went wrong...maybe because Locke didn't make it to the island on time, and Ben wasn't supposed to kill all the Dharma people, and Locke would have been leader earlier... maybe the wrong side won and so now they're back in time to change it."

11. Attached is a close-up of Hurley's jumpsuit with Dharma kitchen logo. Someone pointed it out and I thought it was funny so I grabbed a photo of it. It's a chef's hat with an X below. It reminds me of a skull and crossbones. Funny for a kitchen logo!

[BarneyBandMan]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

2. The book that young Ben brings to Sayid is "A Separate Reality." The text is basically a thesis on the need for psychotropic drugs to achieve a proper state for seeing an alternate reality.

Yeah--forgot about this one until just now. I saw the book and immediately knew it by its cover. I told my wife it was a Carlos Castaneda book I had read back in 1978 while a freshman in college (don't all engineering majors read that stuff?). Several of us read the first three books he had written and ordered up some shrooms and peyote from ads in High Times. I never achieved the higher level of consciousness. Sigh...I may not be "Others" material...nor did I end up an engineer.

[Ollie]

This "58 minutes of connect-the-dots followed by 2 minutes of OMG-OMG" format is getting a little old.

There should be an awesome episode coming up soon...

Ben gets shot. Bravo. Well done. Finally an episode where I come away somewhat if not completely satisfied.

[kaisersozei]

One question I had (well, there's more than one, but just one that I thought might have an easy answer by someone less forgetful than me ): if Sawyer & Co., are stuck in the 70s, where did he get the taser he used on Sayid? Has he always had a taser on him--say, from the present?--and have we seen it before? That stuck out to me, for some reason.

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

One question I had (well, there's more than one, but just one that I thought might have an easy answer by someone less forgetful than me ): if Sawyer & Co., are stuck in the 70s, where did he get the taser he used on Sayid? Has he always had a taser on him--say, from the present?--and have we seen it before? That stuck out to me, for some reason.

Good call on the taser. I didn't even think about that.

JUST watched the most recent episode last night...holy SH!T!

And got all caught up but can't find the damn season premiere anywhere....what the heck do I do?

I want to go in and read more of this thread (haven't wanted to because I wasn't caught up)....

But I'm just wondering 2 things after all this:

a) why is Sayid doing Ben's dirty work
b) why the heck the Others are at odds with the Dharma gang to begin with....

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

One question I had (well, there's more than one, but just one that I thought might have an easy answer by someone less forgetful than me ): if Sawyer & Co., are stuck in the 70s, where did he get the taser he used on Sayid? Has he always had a taser on him--say, from the present?--and have we seen it before? That stuck out to me, for some reason.

I was under the impression that Tazers are not that new of technology. So, I figured it was just an early implementation of such technology.

[Cigargal]

Seems like every once in a while they have to throw in an episode that fills in the gaps. We found out what Kate did with Aaron, but I would sure like to know what happened to Daniel. He arrived with Sawyer & Co at the Dharma camp and we haven't seen him since that episode-where did he go?

Looks like things are going to heat up for Ben next week.

[Mugen910]

Go read up Dave!