911 call that went bad.

[hotreds]

tragic

[smitty81]

Just for the record, I don't hate cops. In fact, I respect them for what they do. I just felt this could have been avoided and the situation got out of hand.

[Remo]

Originally Posted by smitty81

This is an interesting article. I did some googling around on this incident and it seems there are two sides of the story. Seems to me the cop needs better training.


http://gma.yahoo.com/austin-police-c...opstories.html

Thoughts?

It was already answered in your original statement.

[Pseudosacred]

I'm going to go ahead and say that this cop should be fired. I mean, first of all, he was at the wrong address. It doesn't take a genius to realize the difference between a man who is breaking the law or a man that is not.

I don't think this is a matter of being a cop or not. From what I understand, you only draw your weapon on someone who poses a threat. A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

Also, shooting a dog that's barking and "running toward you" is just ridiculous. That cop must have been a scared little man to be that intimidated by a 50 lb. dog.

Personally, though, I have had an experiance where I was pulled over at gunpoint due to false allegations of a "breaking & entering". I told this kid that cigarettes make him look like an idiot and he got really mad (I guess, he never said anything to me) so he filed a fake police report that I broke in, stole his laptop and drove by holding it out the window. I was driving to go meet my friends and play hockey and like...400ft from the rink, a cop turns his sirens on behind me. I pulled over and the guy gets out and posts up with his gun drawn. I was scared sh**less. He figured out that it was all a lie, but I still pressed charges and got him fired. He had NO reason to pull a gun. A taser? maybe. A gun is just wrong to pull on someone who isn't belligerant.

There's my

[Remo]

Originally Posted by Pseudosacred

I'm going to go ahead and say that this cop should be fired. I mean, first of all, he was at the wrong address. It doesn't take a genius to realize the difference between a man who is breaking the law or a man that is not.

I don't think this is a matter of being a cop or not. From what I understand, you only draw your weapon on someone who poses a threat. A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

Also, shooting a dog that's barking and "running toward you" is just ridiculous. That cop must have been a scared little man to be that intimidated by a 50 lb. dog.


There's my

Let's look at it this way....just because some Sheep doesn't know their address or some dispatcher hears it wrong and sends it to the cop, how does the cop know he's at the wrong address? That's the one he was sent.....domestic disputes are one of the most dangerous calls an officer responds to, so the officer arrives and approaches a house where he believes a male is choking a female......violent felony.

As he approaches the house a 50 lb. dog charges from the backyard followed by a male who the officer believes has been choking a female, now the officer has to do something to protect himself from dog or male who he still thinks is a suspect, who could easily have a weapon and now the dog is impeding him from doing his job and staying safe. Just because someone has their hands up saying I didn't do anything doesn't make it so until the officer verifies what's going on, but until he can conduct an investigation he has no idea.

Again, unless you have been there and done that you can keep your

[bonjing]

[quote=Pseudosacred;1620078
I don't think this is a matter of being a cop or not. From what I understand, you only draw your weapon on someone who poses a threat. A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

[/QUOTE]

I'm not LE, but have gone through some training

I'm just commenting on this part. I've had my A** handed to me during training scenarios where a suspect was, what some would consider no longer a "threat."

[markem]

Originally Posted by bonjing

I'm just commenting on this part. I've had my A** handed to me during training scenarios where a suspect was, what some would consider no longer a "threat."

I used to be a training volunteer for a local sheriff's academy. I was very good at playing the innocent who suddenly became the threat. In almost every situation, I got the upper hand and then the training officer would say something like, "This is what happened to officer X last week on that 2am traffic stop ..."

I was excellent at "obeying commands" while edging closer. The trainees hated me, but in a good way.

[Remo]

Originally Posted by Pseudosacred

A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

How did I miss this?

I have dealt with some HUGE men in my time...6'6" 350 lb p!ssed off Polynesians drunk on Kava....now I don't care if they have their hands up...when they are verbally threatening to kill you, tear your head off and shove it up your @ss....you tell me if they are NOT a threat in any way.

[bonjing]

Originally Posted by Remo_5_0

How did I miss this?

I have dealt with some HUGE men in my time...6'6" 350 lb p!ssed off Polynesians drunk on Kava....now I don't care if they have their hands up...when they are verbally threatening to kill you, tear your head off and shove it up your @ss....you tell me if they are NOT a threat in any way.

Toss the man two sets of cuffs and tell him to put them on himself!

[Pseudosacred]

Originally Posted by Remo_5_0

How did I miss this?

I have dealt with some HUGE men in my time...6'6" 350 lb p!ssed off Polynesians drunk on Kava....now I don't care if they have their hands up...when they are verbally threatening to kill you, tear your head off and shove it up your @ss....you tell me if they are NOT a threat in any way.

I guess this is where my situational unawareness comes in. I would probably hold a gun to a dude like that.

But I was a 16 year old kid, crying with my hands up and he had a gun pointed at me from 2 feet away. That, in my mind, makes that cop a scum bag and I'm glad I could get him out of his position.

I have family members who are cops and they're great people. I guess my first encounter was just a really bad experiance, probably scarring me for life and making me dislike every other cop I meet.

By the way, what's kava? You mentioned someone "drunk on kava"?

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Pseudosacred

A man who has his hands up is NOT a threat in any way.

I beg to differ.....from experience.

Originally Posted by Pseudosacred

Also, shooting a dog that's barking and "running toward you" is just ridiculous. That cop must have been a scared little man to be that intimidated by a 50 lb. dog.

We have two 50 lbs canines here that would turn someone inside out before they could say "boo".

[RGD.]

Originally Posted by icehog3

We have two 50 lbs canines here that would turn someone inside out before they could say "boo".

Exactly. And this poor dog was an Australian Cattle Dog - which for those of us who have been fortunate enough to own one, they have some of if not the sharpest teeth around.

I'm sure that Cisco was just doing what is in his breeds nature and that is to put himself between his master and anything he perceives to be a threat. Aussies are not known to attack but they will stand ground - period.

I feel bad for the homeowner. I feel for the officer who at that point believed he had no other choice.

I feel worse for Cisco who isn't here now through no fault of his own.

Ron

[LostAbbott]

I think we are getting away from the real problem here. There have been too many Officer on Dog shootings all around the country lately. I think the general citizenry feel that police think shooting the dog has become an acceptable threat and or deterrent to anyone standing up for themselves or resisting the officers commands... etc....

For me here in Seattle the Police have actually shot and beat people so much that he now have the DOJ leaning over their shoulder and the citizens do not feel they are safe from the police. The Seattle area and King county has seen the highest percentage of handgun purchases and CCW permits of anywhere else precisely due to higher robberies and 0 faith in the competence of out police force.

I was not there and have no idea what actually happened, I do know that if the people feel the LEO's are over reacting and not serving the people, then the LEO's are doing something very wrong. It is very much more about perception than anything else.

[Steve]

Here's a thought, shouldn't the man have had control of his dog to start with? Where I am from, we are responsible for our dogs and as such are expected to keep them under control.

I have a 70 pound Boxer. He loves his family (pack) and therefore feels it is his duty to protect his family. If he knows you (especially if you have shared a cigar with him), and I or my wife are around, you are probably alright (If you are a good friend you may drown from his greeting, but you can always shower off later). If he does not know you and you come into his yard or near his house, he is going to let you know his displeasure. If I am not around and my wife and/or daughter is, he will be between them and you, and he will definitely define the "safe" zone around them and you would be advised to heed this zone.

That being said, when a stranger comes to the door or up to the fence if we are outside, we have him under physical control. Even when friends first come over, he is at the least under verbal control. Friends also understand that getting too close or moving towards the girls quickly will probably get his attention. If we are out on the deck and I go in for something, he will get up from wherever he is (even leaving his bone or treat) and position himself between our guests and the girls. He’s a dog; it’s what he does, what he understands, and as his owner, I/we understand that it is our responsibility to control the situation BEFORE it becomes a situation.

Reading this article, the dog comes charging out of the back yard barking. The owner may say the dog is not aggressive, but that is aggressive behavior. He may be defending his home, but that is aggressive none the less. Had the dog been contained in the back yard, he would probably still be alive. When I am working in my back yard, if I go out the gate for some reason, the dog is commanded to stay AND the gate is securely closed and latched. In my humble opinion, which along with a buck-thirty might buy you a coke, having a dog charge out the gate towards a cop who already is unsure what he is walking into would be almost as bad as meeting the cop with a gun in my hand. I am sure he feels that if only one of us is going home tonight, it’s going to be him. With that thought in mind, I am going to make sure I do not make him any more nervous than he may already be.

As far as drawing his weapon, we recently had a pair of "gentlemen" cooking up meth when the house was raided. The pair turned dogs loose on the cops who were raiding the house. I think I can understand this guy’s stance.

I will now respectfully bow out of this conversation.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by steve

As far as drawing his weapon, we recently had a pair of "gentlemen" cooking up meth when the house was raided. The pair turned dogs loose on the cops who were raiding the house. I think I can understand this guy’s stance.

Just to clarify, the "guy" I was refering to was the office.

I'm out.

[CigarNut]

We have people here posting about what went wrong here when in fact:

- They have no LEO experience
- They have no understanding of the situation
- They are making assumptions -- and we all know the value of assumptions...

Yet they are experts.

Frankly, we outsiders will never know what really happened. What we know right now is:

- The officer was at the address he was given by 911 for a serious domestic dispute
- The officer had no way of knowing that he was not at the correct address
- The officer sees a man out front rumaging in his truck
- The officer draws his gun and tells man to put his hands up
- The officer sees a 50lb dog barking and coming toward him
- The man says he told the officer not to shoot the dog
- The man did not say that he did anything to control the dog

Me, I am going to assume that officer did what he thought was right and acted accordingly. I sleep better that way.

LEO's have a really tough job. Before you complain you should try dealing with the crap that they have to take every day.

[smitty81]

I did start this thread and I don't mind taking the heat for it. I don't claim to be an expert by any means. In fact Michael, what you just said is right.

I think my first post in this thread was not explained well and that is my fault. I tried my best to explain myself in my last post.

I feel a lot of mixed feelings and harshness towards each other in this thread which is not what I wanted.

I can see this thread is taking a downward spiral here.

Mods, would you consider closing this thread to avoid further confrontation between members here.

[Whipper Snapper]

Originally Posted by smitty81

Mods, would you consider closing this thread to avoid further confrontation between members here.

Can we end this one on a happy note? We can treat each other with love and respect. I've no desire to see this take another turn, and I vote in favor of respecting the op's desired request.

[shilala]

I tend to keep my thoughts on law enforcement to myself, much like my thoughts on abortion. I don't have a vagina, and I'm not the one laying my life on the line.
Anyone who is living through either situation is far more equipped to deal with said situation than I.

Josh, you're doing fine. You explained yourself perfectly. I was from a small town, and had a number of friends and family in law enforcement. Now I'm from a big city and my nephew-in-law just became an officer.
Things are done a lot different in every place. Whatever place that is, I would never second-guess an officer. I live in a nice neighborhood and the police are absolutely awesome, some of the greatest ambassadors I've ever run into. If they show up and stick a gun in my mouth, tell me to hit the dirt, and shoot my charging dog, there will be no discussion about it.

[Zeuceone]

Happens all the time. atleast he didn't shoot himself like that lady officer.