Planting My First Garden

[OHRD]

So, how should I pack the dirt? Hard with a shovel or loose like I just flung it on there? I mean, it'll have to be packed around the actual root of the plant where I dig in at, but what about the rest?

[shilala]

Originally Posted by OHRD

So, how should I pack the dirt? Hard with a shovel or loose like I just flung it on there? I mean, it'll have to be packed around the actual root of the plant where I dig in at, but what about the rest?

You want it loose as a goose, brother. Loose so it'll drain and loose so it's got air. Just throw it in and rake the top. It'll settle to where it wants to be.
When you plant your plants, you don't "pack" them in, all you want to do is lightly tighten the soil around them, just enough for them to stand up.
If you can get the soil so loose that when you step in it you sink up to your knees, that'd be perfect. You can't do it, but that's what you're shooting for.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by shilala

Wayner, usually the ties that guys get are spent ones. They've been used on the railroad and really don't have any crap left that's a problem. I sure wouldn't use new ones. I suppose I should have qualified, I just immediately thought of the old ones guys can buy at home. Odd I didn't think of new ones because there's a tie plant right by my house that stinks like the bejeezus. I used to be afraid of pressure-treated lumber. I've long since ceased being afraid of it. I'm not sure if people still fuss about it being bad for you or not?

I should also qualify the 6" stuff. I'm talking about garden plants up north here. Actually, most of our stuff can't get past 4", and 6" is a stretch. In long growing seasons and loose soil with certain cultivars, I don't suppose there's any reason why roots can't get down there further, especially if they're chasing water. I suppose it'd be dictated by the plant's length of season, they might never get time to get down there before they're done. The 6" thing is because that's all the deeper plants find the need to push roots to get what they need (around here). They'll actually never go past two inches if they never find need to. That's evidenced by our tomato plants. They just send roots all over the top of the ground until they find wormholes to send roots down. Even at that, they'll only go about 3" max. You can pull a whole plant out effortlessly in loose soil. We plant them sideways in a trough rather than in a hole. It works LOTS better like that.

Even with older ties, they have been found to leech chemicals. Where it might not be a big issue for flowers or other plants, I wouldn't trust it around my veggies.

There have been some good research articles on arsenic and PT lumber. Most of the scares came about through the old CCA treated lumber. There are a couple new ways of treating lumber now, and they are supposed to be safer, but still there is leeching. Whether or not that leeching can hurt you is another matter. Personally I am leaning more towards concrete block as it's cheaper and can be made into more patterns more easily for me.

Originally Posted by OHRD

So, how should I pack the dirt? Hard with a shovel or loose like I just flung it on there? I mean, it'll have to be packed around the actual root of the plant where I dig in at, but what about the rest?

Don't pack it at all. Just fill and smooth it down. The first few rains will pack it down enough.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by wayner123

Even with older ties, they have been found to leech chemicals. Where it might not be a big issue for flowers or other plants, I wouldn't trust it around my veggies.

There have been some good research articles on arsenic and PT lumber. Most of the scares came about through the old CCA treated lumber. There are a couple new ways of treating lumber now, and they are supposed to be safer, but still there is leeching. Whether or not that leeching can hurt you is another matter. Personally I am leaning more towards concrete block as it's cheaper and can be made into more patterns more easily for me.

I've never used ties, but I have to admit I'm not scared of them anymore, either. Maybe it's from all of them I saw used around home, I don't know. I just have never had issue. I wouldn't use them now, but mainly because I can't move them around and I don't find them aesthetically pleasing.
I was using those "pressure treated landscape timbers" you see at lowe's and walmart. They only last a few years, they're really worthless. When I build my next beds, it'll be grade#1 4x4's.
Block would be cool, but you can't have anything around here unless you put in a footer. The ground would freeze the first year and expand and wreck anything you laid in. To use blocks, you'd have to use those fancy, expensive "block system" blocks, and that'd get crazy expensive.

I suppose it'd only be right to suggest to Matt to look into ties a little further and see what folks around him are using? If their livers are failing and their life spans are around 55 years, it might pay to lay plastic in behind them?

[thebayratt]

Originally Posted by shilala

I was using those "pressure treated landscape timbers" you see at lowe's and walmart. They only last a few years, they're really worthless.

Thats what I used to get started out to make sure I really wanted a garden.
The reason they are worthless is that they are whats called "flash treated". They aren't fully treated all the way through. Thats why this year I went with a treaded 2x8" for a new raised bed. I could have used a 2x6, but a 2x8 gave me a little more room to add any more soil if needed.

Once they(timbers) rot away from the current bed, I will use some treated 2x6 or 2x8. Then I will use and oil based stain to seal them even more. I will do this all in the fall once all the plants are gone n dead.
Treated lumber is not to be in direct contact with the ground, thats why I am going to stain them to protect them even more.

I wouldn't use the ties, there are too many chemicals I wouldn't want in my plants. Creosote to name a few is distilled from crude coke oven tar, and is mainly composed of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons... don't sound to nice to be in the soil of my plants.