Bulging Discs in back?

[mash]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Totally agree.
first and foremost, thanks to MRI's, they can now tell 2/3's of the world has bulging discs.
A bulging disc is not a herniated disc.
A herniated disc does not necessarily cause impingement, more known as radiculopathy.

I have two full blown herniations, with impingement, at L4-L5, L5-S1.
The L4-L5 is where half the world suffers from it.
Cervical is where the other half does.

I have been like this for 23 years.
I have good years and bad ones.
Thanks to acupuncture, I have had two great years so far.

Like a great doctor and family friend once told me an I have followed.......when you find yourself in the fetal position for a month and can't move due to pain and being drugged, consider surgery. Until then, live like 2/3's of the world with pain or find an auto accident to enrich you or let my fraud opration get you.

The point about MRI's is right. If you're over 40 years old, you have a good chance of having back pain and degenerative disc disease on MRi. Whether the MRI changes are the cause of your pain is not always clear.
The indication for surgery is nerve compression with either alteration in bowel/bladder function (surgery needs to be done urgently), or nerve compression with leg pain and motor signs (muscle weakness) that doesn't respond to non-surgical treatment. Surgery will not reliably lessen your back pain but it may help your leg symptoms. If you look at patients 3-4 years post surgery they look about the same as those that haven't had surgery, the pay off is the first couple of years post surgery.
I would be careful about the comparison to Derrick Thomas. He died because he had a spinal cord injury and was totally immobilized, he had a fatal blood clot in his lung. This likely had nothing to do with who operated on him.

[forgop]

Originally Posted by mash

The indication for surgery is nerve compression with either alteration in bowel/bladder function (surgery needs to be done urgently), or nerve compression with leg pain and motor signs (muscle weakness) that doesn't respond to non-surgical treatment. Surgery will not reliably lessen your back pain but it may help your leg symptoms. If you look at patients 3-4 years post surgery they look about the same as those that haven't had surgery, the pay off is the first couple of years post surgery.

I had 2 such surgeries last year. For a number of years, I had experienced some numbness/tingling in my legs and thought nothing of it as I attributed it to being overweight. I had small children and they'd step on my back to help pop it at times and if they stepped on it, it would send a sharp pain down my legs.

In Sept. 2009, I was going through a lot of stress and had a lot of tension/pain in my neck and upper back-it was to the point that I couldn't move. I went in for an MRI and they never found the source of that issue, but revealed the source of my numbness/tingling in my legs. The canal (aka vertebral foramen) my spine passes through is quite narrow compared to most people and I had bone spurs (between T10-T12) protruding into my spine and was effectively causing the numbness/tingling issue.

The first surgery was quite successful-for 2-3 months anyway. After that time, the numbness returned to my left leg from my knee down. I then had another follow up last December in which the neurosurgeon opened up some more room around my spine. It didn't seem to stop the feeling I went in for, but I at least have a little more room.

The #1 thing recommended to me by my surgeon is taking off weight to relieve the additional pressure off my spine. That's one of the best cures for a bad back.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mash

I would be careful about the comparison to Derrick Thomas. He died because he had a spinal cord injury and was totally immobilized, he had a fatal blood clot in his lung. This likely had nothing to do with who operated on him.

Call it what you want.
My understanding is it was a post op complication.
My point is it was a surgery done by one of the best in the country in dealing with paralysis and he died.
Point being surgery is serious chit and for me personally, I am proof one can have a relatively normal life with two herniations and impingement and no surgery.
Point also is any good doctor will do all conservative treatment possible for common bulges and not immediately recommend or concur with what is always the danger of invasive surgery, particularly to the spine, housing such intricate nerves.
Surgery on the back is the option of very last resort. Bulges can and do improve. As I have said, weight is key and very often overlooked and ignored as a cause and cure.

[Blueface]

Derrick Thomas

Post op blod clot as was being moved from bed to wheelchair.

Read the part where Dr. Barth Green (whom I was going to be operated by) talks about the successes and failures of surgeries.
It starts with "we do a great........."

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/10/sp...=derrickthomas

[mash]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Call it what you want.
My understanding is it was a post op complication.
My point is it was a surgery done by one of the best in the country in dealing with paralysis and he died.
Point being surgery is serious chit and for me personally, I am proof one can have a relatively normal life with two herniations and impingement and no surgery.
Point also is any good doctor will do all conservative treatment possible for common bulges and not immediately recommend or concur with what is always the danger of invasive surgery, particularly to the spine, housing such intricate nerves.
Surgery on the back is the option of very last resort. Bulges can and do improve. As I have said, weight is key and very often overlooked and ignored as a cause and cure.

Agreed, surgery is the last resort.
I am a doctor with Worker's Compensation, and my brother is a rehab medicine doc. Both of us see back surgery failures.
My point about Derrick Thomas is this- to highlight what happened to him as a risk of back surgery is not applicable to someone who isn't immoblized. That is the biggest risk factor for pulmonary embolism.
If I cross a street, I may get hit by a car. The chances of that happening are different if I cross a side street compared to a freeway. So, to use his case as an argument about why someone shouldn't have back surgery needs to be put into context.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mash

Agreed, surgery is the last resort.
I am a doctor with Worker's Compensation, and my brother is a rehab medicine doc. Both of us see back surgery failures.
My point about Derrick Thomas is this- to highlight what happened to him as a risk of back surgery is not applicable to someone who isn't immoblized. That is the biggest risk factor for pulmonary embolism.
If I cross a street, I may get hit by a car. The chances of that happening are different if I cross a side street compared to a freeway. So, to use his case as an argument about why someone shouldn't have back surgery needs to be put into context.

Well, let's see.
A doctor I am not but let's determine how bad my Derrick Thomas example truly is.

He died of a blood clot, post operative.

As a doctor, please clarify for me.
Is there a potential risk for terminal blood clots post surgeries?
Is this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought?

I believe you will have to agree there is.

If there is, and Derrick Thomas got one post surgery to attempt to repair his post traumatic paralysis, how is my analogy so far off?

[mash]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Well, let's see.
A doctor I am not but let's determine how bad my Derrick Thomas example truly is.

He died of a blood clot, post operative.

As a doctor, please clarify for me.
Is there a potential risk for terminal blood clots post surgeries?
Is this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought?

I believe you will have to agree there is.

If there is, and Derrick Thomas got one post surgery to attempt to repair his post traumatic paralysis, how is my analogy so far off?

In answer to your questions:

No, I don't agree that "this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought". By whom?

Your analogy is very far off. Thomas had a spinal cord decompression, and then had his spinal column fixed with hardware and a bone graft from his hip. All of this time, he was totally immoblized. You are attributing his risk of pulmonary embolism to the general case where a non-paralyzed person gets a discectomy as a rationale to not have surgery. Simply wrong.
I'm with you on not having surgery unless it is the only option, this is just not a valid argument.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mash

In answer to your questions:

No, I don't agree that "this potential recently being determined to be more pervasive than previously thought". By whom?

Your analogy is very far off. Thomas had a spinal cord decompression, and then had his spinal column fixed with hardware and a bone graft from his hip. All of this time, he was totally immoblized. You are attributing his risk of pulmonary embolism to the general case where a non-paralyzed person gets a discectomy as a rationale to not have surgery. Simply wrong.
I'm with you on not having surgery unless it is the only option, this is just not a valid argument.

I respect your opinion.
I'll remain with mine.
Not the first time I have disagreed with a doctor.

As to where I got the prevalence of clots post op, tons of material on that.
In fact, it is even alluded to in the article I attached, which I candidly found post my post. I didn't type this. Someone else did.

"Nothing has been confirmed but the coroner did tell us that he thinks Mia died from a blood clot related to the knee surgery," she adds. "We are just now finding this out that this is all too common and people don't know the risks of arthroscopic surgery. They need to be made aware of the risks."

And to think this was knee surgery. Not a doctor but would bet the spine is a tad more complicated.
At least we agree on the surgery part which was my main point.
Enough about DT as far as I am concerned.
On with the thread.

[Blueface]

I didn't write this either.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5084589_si...r-surgery.html

Or this.

http://www.buzzle.com/articles/blood...r-surgery.html

Or this.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...-research.html

Or this.

http://www.webmd.com/dvt/news/200912...clot-risk-high

Or this.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...at_should.html