Official SEC Football Thread 2011

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by E.J.

So you were just bringing up 2007(Jan 2008)....4 years ago, the last time it was relevant?????


SEC....SEC....SEC....

I think the point is that the Big Ten is irrelevant.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

I think the point is that the Big Ten is irrelevant.

I can agree with that.... Though I honestly believe that Urban Meyer will change that quickly, to my dismay....

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by E.J.

I can agree with that.... Though I honestly believe that Urban Meyer will change that quickly, to my dismay....

Well, I think that may be a good thing for the NCAA as a whole... assuming he is successful.

The thing to take away from today's selection is that there's obviously a struggle for all other conferences to have relevancy against the dominance of the SEC lately. (And to all of you nay-sayers, it doesn't matter at this point, the chips have fallen and make no mistake, there WILL BE a national champion from the SEC this season)

So for those who want to see more than one conference playing for the title... having someone like Urban Meyer go into the Big Ten is not a bad thing. However, I think there are plenty of great coaches outside the SEC. For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

So for those who want to see more than one conference playing for the title... having someone like Urban Meyer go into the Big Ten is not a bad thing. However, I think there are plenty of great coaches outside the SEC. For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture.

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)? Further, where's the, "culture" now at Florida without Urban Meyer? Is all the, "culture" dried up in Knoxville, too?

[rizzle]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)? Further, where's the, "culture" now at Florida without Urban Meyer? Is all the, "culture" dried up in Knoxville, too?

Culture? You know we're a bunch of inbred hicks. We ain't never had no culturing.

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)? Further, where's the, "culture" now at Florida without Urban Meyer? Is all the, "culture" dried up in Knoxville, too?

Stephen, I think you misunderstand my statement. The point that was being made is there are plenty of great coaches outside of the SEC. And I think that Urban Meyer is a prime example of a great coach that doesn't matter where he goes, will impact a team, conference and potentially all of college football. The distinction I was trying to make however is that perhaps there is more to winning championships than simply having a good head coach. (Ahem, Charlie Weiss, Dennis Erickson, Dave Wandstedt, the list goes on.)

As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color).

I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

[Powers]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

Stephen, I think you misunderstand my statement. The point that was being made is there are plenty of great coaches outside of the SEC. And I think that Urban Meyer is a prime example of a great coach that doesn't matter where he goes, will impact a team, conference and potentially all of college football. The distinction I was trying to make however is that perhaps there is more to winning championships than simply having a good head coach. (Ahem, Charlie Weiss, Dennis Erickson, Dave Wandstedt, the list goes on.)

As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color).

I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

I said exactly the same thing in so many words over on the BCS thread at nearly the same time in response to another question

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

Stephen, I think you misunderstand my statement. The point that was being made is there are plenty of great coaches outside of the SEC. And I think that Urban Meyer is a prime example of a great coach that doesn't matter where he goes, will impact a team, conference and potentially all of college football. The distinction I was trying to make however is that perhaps there is more to winning championships than simply having a good head coach. (Ahem, Charlie Weiss, Dennis Erickson, Dave Wandstedt, the list goes on.)

As to the culture of the Southeastern US, football is an integral part of it. It is woven into the fabric of our existence nearly from birth in most states below the Mason-Dixon line (Sometimes even from CONCEPTION. I for one have seen baby nurseries painted in team color).

I won't speak for the cultures of Louisiana, Florida or Tennessee, but as for the football culture in the state Alabama, I think anyone who has ever worn Crimson and White or Burnt Orange and Blue would happily inform you about said culture. (I'm sure even our Division II Team from UNA in Florence, AL might have some input, or perhaps Troy University further south) However, being a subjective matter and one of personal taste I will leave that up to you to figure out. I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

Framed within the context of your statement, I am talking about culture = victories and/or Championships. Sure, the dyed-in-the-wool fanbases go back generations. The winning, however, doesn't happen until the program acquires a top flight coach that in turn brings in top flight talent. How many times have we seen this happen over the last 15 years in college football? USC was floundering before Carroll, Oklahoma before Stoops, Texas before Brown, LSU and Alabama before Saban.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

I however will simply say you'd be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football in Alabama is predicated by the arrival of Nick Saban, or even Gene Chizik for that matter.

I know you are not HE, but there was another diehard homer in this thread that said quite the opposite.
Nick Saban was brought in to completely change the culture of Alabama football from one of losing and
scandal to one of winning and goodness and character. I only remember it because while he was forcing
that down my throat, he was calling my preferred team a bunch of criminals and thugs that he predicted
"would turn out as losers in life." ---edit---and were a stain on the SEC, the 2011 season, and any hopes
we might have of him watching either the championship game or the NCG in February. (eyeroll)

[OLS]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Pray tell, where was that, "culture" prior to Nick Saban becoming the head coach at Alabama (or LSU for that matter)?

Odd that you would highlight those two teams, and especially LSU. LSU and Bama have had one
thing without a doubt for WELL over a century, and that is that no matter how bad the teams were losing,
they never failed to sell out their venues. In LA there IS a culture. Not only do we compete on very
even turf against FL and TX for best football players in the country, but our fans never give up.
The Saints were, as Howard Cosell once put it on Monday Night Football as I sat and watched,
the 'galvanized garbage can of the N--F--L...", and their fans NEVER gave up being behind the team.
Even the AINTS bagheads displayed their bags from fairly good seats in the dome.
You can't win a football culture argument in Louisiana. I will let the Crimson Elephants defend their own
team, because they don't listen to me anyway.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by OLS

Odd that you would highlight those two teams, and especially LSU. LSU and Bama have had one
thing without a doubt for WELL over a century, and that is that no matter how bad the teams were losing,
they never failed to sell out their venues. In LA there IS a culture. Not only do we compete on very
even turf against FL and TX for best football players in the country, but our fans never give up.
The Saints were, as Howard Cosell once put it on Monday Night Football as I sat and watched,
the 'galvanized garbage can of the N--F--L...", and their fans NEVER gave up being behind the team.
Even the AINTS bagheads displayed their bags from fairly good seats in the dome.
You can't win a football culture argument in Louisiana. I will let the Crimson Elephants defend their own
team, because they don't listen to me anyway.

I'm talking about the culture of winning, Brad. Rabid fandom has always run rampant in places that we're discussing. My argument, however, is that this, "culture" doesn't manifest itself in the win column like ninjavanish put forth, especially in lieu of a good/great coach (because with good coaches come good recruits).

Originally Posted by ninjavanish

For the SEC, it's a chance to prove (or further prove) that it's perhaps not the coaches that make the difference, but our culture.

[Powers]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm talking about the culture of winning, Brad. Rabid fandom has always run rampant in places that we're discussing. My argument, however, is that this, "culture" doesn't manifest itself in the win column like ninjavanish put forth, especially in lieu of a good/great coach (because with good coaches come good recruits).

I think what Ninjavanish perhaps is arguing, and that I would as well, is that the culture of the SEC is directly correlated to schools getting good coaches, which then bring in good recruits and win. It is the culture of SEC schools and their fans to set such high standards and demands that a coaching carosel ensues into a winner is found.
Take Arkansas, Florida and South Carolina for example. They each have had a long history of mediocrity at some point in their program's past. Yet the culture of football in these regions still demanded better play/coaching until they stumbled upon or hired one.
This doesn't stem originally from a tradition of winning, but from something more intrinsic. Once these schools have a taste of winning, however, then you get even higher expectations.

For what it's worth, thats how I perceive how SEC culture shapes programs

[ninjavanish]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Framed within the context of your statement, I am talking about culture = victories and/or Championships. Sure, the dyed-in-the-wool fanbases go back generations. The winning, however, doesn't happen until the program acquires a top flight coach that in turn brings in top flight talent. How many times have we seen this happen over the last 15 years in college football? USC was floundering before Carroll, Oklahoma before Stoops, Texas before Brown, LSU and Alabama before Saban.

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm talking about the culture of winning, Brad. Rabid fandom has always run rampant in places that we're discussing. My argument, however, is that this, "culture" doesn't manifest itself in the win column like ninjavanish put forth, especially in lieu of a good/great coach (because with good coaches come good recruits).

Stephen, it seems your argument preculdes itself. Because without the support of "dyed-in-the-wool fanbases", alumni, and monetary boosters, no such a top flight coach would employed (or employed for long) by a school and therefore the top flight talent you speak of would not follow as you detailed. I'm sorry my friend, but this sport starts with the support of the fans, and it is from those basic building blocks that championship teams are born. Ticket sales, donations and booster money are what draw coaches, top flight players, and championships. All pieces of the puzzle are important and it takes "the perfect storm", if you will, of all of them at once: broad fanbase, talented coaches, and talented players to cultivate a championship. But no piece is more integral to that equation as the culture of football within a given fanbase. Again, I think that you would be fooling yourself to think that the culture of football is predicated by the arrival of ANY coach ANYwhere. The flames of support may be fanned so to speak, but regardless, the fire comes from the so-called "rabid fandom". It is predicated on the fans supporting football. The arrival of a great coach or a top flight player or a championship is the direct result of the football culture of the region/area of interest. A coach may inspire a fanbase with great wins, and great players may endear themselves with memorable plays and performances, but they are all lost without the fans.

In each of the schools you mentioned above, it was not some invisible force that propelled those schools to hire great coaches. It was the desire in the fanbase (born through their football culture) to see the once great teams return to greatness.