Should Penn State get the Death Penalty?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by smitty81

for what?

Dude, seriously?
Christan Peter
Lawrence Phillips

Ring a bell?

Originally Posted by smitty81

See, your getting all defensive about this all.

I am just pointing out that they did in fact break NCAA rules. Rather they deserve the "death penalty", that is up to the NCAA I guess.

The rules I posted, none of them alone really warrant the death penalty. It's all the rules together they have broken that is going to get them the death penalty.

Nebraska has never done anything this serious to deserve a "death penalty".

Your over analyzing all this and it seems your taking it personally.

They broke the rules and the NCAA CAN punish them for it. It is what it is rather you agree with it or not.

I don't know where you deduct that I'm taking it personally.

Herein lies my uneasiness with NCAA, and have yet to see a credible argument (here or elsewhere) to convince me otherwise: It's arbitrary and capricious. If the NCAA does decide to levy sanctions, they're saying that murder, the raping of women, robbery, drug usage, drug distribution, assault, etc. aren't a violation, but THIS is.

[King James]

Originally Posted by Stephen

they're saying that murder, the raping of women, robbery, drug usage, drug distribution, assault, etc. aren't a violation, but THIS is.

That is kind of where I am at too. Its not at all that I think Penn State deserves a break, I hope that they have to pay out their ass in civil court and if any other criminal charges can be brought, those should as well.

My point is that if the NCAA steps in, they are open up a can of worms that aught not be opened by the NCAA. Leave criminal matters to the legal system and the NCAA take care of the issues it was created to take care of.

But as already pointed out numerous times, opinions will be different. Especially on such a hotbed issue.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Dude, seriously?
Christan Peter
Lawrence Phillips

Ring a bell?


I don't know where you deduct that I'm taking it personally.

Herein lies my uneasiness with NCAA, and have yet to see a credible argument (here or elsewhere) to convince me otherwise: It's arbitrary and capricious. If the NCAA does decide to levy sanctions, they're saying that murder, the raping of women, robbery, drug usage, drug distribution, assault, etc. aren't a violation, but THIS is.

Can you show me where the NCAA has dealt with any of the above for just half the amount of time that we are talking about with PSU and the cover-up related to that?

You can't say, oh the NCAA didn't do anything when Oregon had a player get a felony bla..bla..bla..., then they had a kid get a DUI, then a theft....and have it compare to what happened at PSU. We are talking about the raping of kids for years and years and years and the school covering that up to save their good name.... That isn't a bunch of single incidents over a period of time, which generally are addressed by the school with suspensions anyway... How the difference doesn't compute with you is beyond me.....

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Can you show me where the NCAA has dealt with any of the above for just half the amount of time that we are talking about with PSU and the cover-up related to that?

I wasn't aware of a minimum amount of infractions an NCAA institution had to incure before action was taken. In short, if rules were violated at Penn State, they were violated at other universities as well and the NCAA, for reasons unbeknownst to me, failed to take action.

Originally Posted by E.J.

You can't say, oh the NCAA didn't do anything when Oregon had a player get a felony bla..bla..bla..., then they had a kid get a DUI, then a theft....and have it compare to what happened at PSU. We are talking about the raping of kids for years and years and years and the school covering that up to save their good name.... That isn't a bunch of single incidents over a period of time, which generally are addressed by the school with suspensions anyway... How the difference doesn't compute with you is beyond me.....

And how you can trivialize the other illegal activities (some of which were connected, some of which were covered up by their respective athletic departments) is equally beyond me.

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I wasn't aware of a minimum amount of infractions an NCAA institution had to incure before action was taken. In short, if rules were violated at Penn State, they were violated at other universities as well and the NCAA, for reasons unbeknownst to me, failed to take action.

And how you can trivialize the other illegal activities (some of which were connected, some of which were covered up by their respective athletic departments) is equally beyond me.

I don't have to "trivialize" to know how to address things on different levels, related to what I am looking at. You know, you don't deal with a parking ticket, like you do with a DUI, which is looked at different than a DUI with injury, which is looked at differently than a 5th DUI conviction because of the history bla..bla..bla.... Apparently you cannot(don't want to?) differentiate on those levels, which is my point. That is okay, at least I know where you are with it.....

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

I don't have to "trivialize" to know how to address things on different levels, related to what I am looking at. You know, you don't deal with a parking ticket, like you do with a DUI, which is looked at different than a DUI with injury, which is looked at differently than a 5th DUI conviction because of the history bla..bla..bla.... Apparently you cannot(don't want to?) differentiate on those levels, which is my point. That is okay, at least I know where you are with it.....

Yes, and each infraction carries a varying degree of punishment, depending on the crime, of which the NCAA has NEVER involved themselves with.

Originally Posted by E.J.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, though for those saying "no" related to the NCAA overstepping their bounds, what about "lack of institutional control"? To me, this seems to fit that bill perfectly.....

Would you say that Colordao circa 1997-2004 (bit hazy on the timeline; sorry) fits your bill of, "lack of institutional control"?

[E.J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Would you say that Colordao circa 1997-2004 (bit hazy on the timeline; sorry) fits your bill of, "lack of institutional control"?

Again, your comparisons that are shallow at best.... Unless, there was a serial rapist/murderer what have you, that was on staff at that time and the head coach(was it McCartney then?) and administration was covering up for him, letting him continue unabated, on staff and then off....but you know, letting him use the showers and whatnot...

Though, please do tell what you think was happening during those years that has relevance here....what was close....in the same ballpark as what we are talking about.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Again, your comparisons that are shallow at best.... Unless, there was a serial rapist/murderer what have you, that was on staff at that time and the head coach(was it McCartney then?) and administration was covering up for him, letting him continue unabated, on staff and then off....but you know, letting him use the showers and whatnot...

Though, please do tell what you think was happening during those years that has relevance here....what was close....in the same ballpark as what we are talking about.

A multitude of rapes/sexual assaults by multiple football players, a coverup (or the very least a, "glossing over") by the coaching staff and administration, and, if I remember correctly, a sympathetic DA's office. Again, this is all from memory, but it was a fairly big deal at the time.

In any case, my overall point is that if it's a question of ethical conduct, why hasn't the NCAA gotten involved in incidents too numerous to mention? If it's, "lack of institutional control", why didn't the NCAA investigate the likes of Colorado or Nebraska? Or am I to believe that something the magnitude that transpired at Penn State needs to occur before institutional control is lost?

[smitty81]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Dude, seriously?
Christan Peter
Lawrence Phillips

So your saying that the NCAA should of handed out the death penalty to NU because of one player that got caught with drugs or a DUI?

Your comparing apples to oranges here.

The one student was punished good enough in the eyes of the NCAA so they didn't feel a need to step in.

PSU....................YEARS and YEARS of cover ups and child rape.

Not exactly comparing the same kind of crimes. Hard to justify the same kind of punishment.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by smitty81

So your saying that the NCAA should of handed out the death penalty to NU because of one player that got caught with drugs or a DUI?

Your comparing apples to oranges here.

The one student was punished good enough in the eyes of the NCAA so they didn't feel a need to step in.

PSU....................YEARS and YEARS of cover ups and child rape.

Not exactly comparing the same kind of crimes. Hard to justify the same kind of punishment.

Uh, Christian Peter raped two women while at Nebraska. Kathy Redmond reported it, nothing came of it. Nebraska tried to cover it up. She brought a civil suit against the University and won. That's not even mentioning all the other crap and arrests while there. Missed exactly zero games due to these infractions (and oh yeah, was a team captain in 1995).

Lawrence Phillips, well, you should know that story.

But here's an article about the team around that time.

And no, I'm not comparing what happened here to what happened at Penn State. I'm stating that it could be argued that, "institutional control" (as has been interpreted in this thread by a few) has been lost at other campuses at other points in time and the NCAA chose not to intervene.

[smitty81]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Uh, Christian Peter raped two women while at Nebraska. Kathy Redmond reported it, nothing came of it. Nebraska tried to cover it up. She brought a civil suit against the University and won. That's not even mentioning all the other crap and arrests while there. Missed exactly zero games due to these infractions (and oh yeah, was a team captain in 1995).

Lawrence Phillips, well, you should know that story.

But here's an article about the team around that time.

And no, I'm not comparing what happened here to what happened at Penn State. I'm stating that it could be argued that, "institutional control" (as has been interpreted in this thread by a few) has been lost at other campuses at other points in time and the NCAA chose not to intervene.

Maybe so, but when one of the main guys that should be controlling things dosen't come forward for YEARS, you have a problem. Don't think for a second the NCAA didn't look into NU's problems also. The NCAA had nothing to gain by letting it slip.