Tom Brady

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by icehog3

If only we could be so passionate about real issues.

Originally Posted by Subvet642

Justice is a real issue, Admiral. If we continue to accept lower and lower standards of it that's just what we'll get; that's why I'm so passionate about it. The news has been filled with reports of people convicted of murder being released because they've been exonerated by DNA evidence. Those people were convicted by a pretty high standard, "beyond a reasonable doubt" and that standard failed as well. Innocent people lost decades of their lives. If we expect justice for ourselves we must be scrupulous about defending it in all cases, no matter how small. Eternal vigilance, as Jefferson said.

While I understand the point you are trying to make, Darren, I would hardly equate people on death row with their life in the balance to an NFL quarterback who makes 20 mil a year bring suspended for 4 games. That is what I meant by "real" issues.

And as has been pointed out for others, Brady isn't subject to any criminal penalties for the alleged indiscretion, so the burden of prove would be preponderance of the evidence, rather than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" of said murder suspects.

No real horse in this race, just mildly amused how wound up people on both sides get about a sports issue like this. Reminds me of the Cubs-White Sox people.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by icehog3

While I understand the point you are trying to make, Darren, I would hardly equate people on death row with their life in the balance to an NFL quarterback who makes 20 mil a year bring suspended for 4 games. That is what I meant by "real" issues.

And as has been pointed out for others, Brady isn't subject to any criminal penalties for the alleged indiscretion, so the burden of prove would be preponderance of the evidence, rather than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" of said murder suspects.

No real horse in this race, just mildly amused how wound up people on both sides get about a sports issue like this. Reminds me of the Cubs-White Sox people.

My point above is that even high standards of proof fail. The standard of proof as displayed in the report doesn't rise above playground justice as it was based solely on the investigation, not a tribunal of any sort where both sides get to present evidence to an impartial adjudicator. It would be like the police deciding the guilt and punishment of whom they arrest. In this case the investigator, judge and jury were invested in a single entity. I think that's spooky on any level. He won't get paid during the suspension so four games adds up to 5 million dollars. The Constitution says:... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law... While it may not be a criminal penalty, It sure looks like one. Hell, the IRS has a higher standard.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

My point above is that even high standards of proof fail. The standard of proof as displayed in the report doesn't rise above playground justice as it was based solely on the investigation, not a tribunal of any sort where both sides get to present evidence to an impartial adjudicator. It would be like the police deciding the guilt and punishment of whom they arrest. In this case the investigator, judge and jury were invested in a single entity. I think that's spooky on any level. He won't get paid during the suspension so four games adds up to 5 million dollars. The Constitution says:... nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law... While it may not be a criminal penalty, It sure looks like one. Hell, the IRS has a higher standard.

Okay...Where was your beef with all this during Bountygate?

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Okay...Where was your beef with all this during Bountygate?

As I had written a few places before, I don't really watch much football. I'm not very familiar with that. Was it the same BS procedure? What were your thoughts on that?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Subvet642

As I had written a few places before, I don't really watch much football. I'm not very familiar with that. Was it the same BS procedure? What were your thoughts on that?

Pretty much. Sean Payton (head coach of the Saints) received a one year unpaid suspension because (in the words of Goodell), "ignorance is not an excuse. You're the head coach. You should've known." Their GM was also suspended eight games, the team fined 500k, and lost two consecutive second round picks. That's not to mention the players/coaches who were directly involved.

Just be thankful Goodell isn't taking that stance this time around.

[Subvet642]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Pretty much. Sean Payton (head coach of the Saints) received a one year unpaid suspension because (in the words of Goodell), "ignorance is not an excuse. You're the head coach. You should've known." Their GM was also suspended eight games, the team fined 500k, and lost two consecutive second round picks. That's not to mention the players/coaches who were directly involved.

Just be thankful Goodell isn't taking that stance this time around.

Jesus! A friggin' year? Sounds like BS to me. Ignorance of a rule/law is no excuse but ignorance of the offense puts it beyond volition and therefore beyond guilt.