Need some advice/legal advice

Remo · 05-26-2015, 05:51 PM

Sorry about the issue, I don't live in a HOA so no help there, but if it's not written in the by laws I would keep flying them, tell them to sue me, I don't see a case. Seems like it is very subjective and would not hold up in court, or I would erect a huge flag pole and find the biggest flags and fly them!

markem · 05-26-2015, 06:12 PM

I have no idea how the law works in NC, but having been on the HOA board here, I can relate some ideas that may be applicable.

Most reputable lawyers will give you about 1/2 hour pro bono to discuss your case. Contact the state bar association for recommendations. Also ask about services to help homeowners in your circumstances. The state may also have resources available.

In Oregon, the law pertaining to HOAs is part of ORS Chapter 94 (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/chapter/94). Specifically, the laws mandates that no CC&Rs, by-laws, etc. for a subdivision or HOA may exceed that permitted in ORS.94 but may be more limiting. It may be worth finding out where the NC law is and what is says.

Your local police department may have a neighborhood dispute resolution service. However, if the HOA insists that they are in the right, the resolution service will do no good.

I have a somewhat funny frog story from when my HOA (when still run by the developer) sent me a threatening letter. I had to seek legal advice and pay to have a letter written to the HOA which caused them to go away for good. You may need to go this route. I paid $175 for my letter and it was worth it.

As for ignoring them, it is typical that an HOA has the ability to file a lien on any property within the subdivision. If they file one, they do not have to inform you (at least not here) and neither does the county (where, presumably the lien is filed). You may only discover this when trying to sell and have no time to fight it since it will hold up the sale. Also note that HOAs in most states can add some form of an interest penalty for outstanding fines. Many locales give you the ability to monitor your property record for liens.

and finally, I do believe that if you ask for the justification for their reasoning -- which part of the bylaws, CC&R, state law, etc. -- that supports their claim, then the ball is in their court until they justify their reasoning. Note that they do not have to get a legal opinion, just justify why they are taking the steps that that they are taking (i.e., a reasonable person would agree with them based solely on the justification they provide). If that is the case, then they should not be able to move forward with any fines or other actions until they satisfy your (reasonable) request.

Make sure that all correspondence occurs with registered mail in case a paper trail is necessary down the line.

MarkinAZ · 05-26-2015, 07:44 PM

Your property is just too well manicured Scott. No wonder you received that threatening letter from the new HOA board

So, I was looking through my HOA' rules n regulations, and ascertained the following:

II. ARCHITECTURAL RULES, 13. GENERAL ACHITECTURAL states: "Exterior decorations or forms of self-expression such as flags, wind chimes, small statues, planters, or various ornamental items are permitted so long as they 1) do not damage or interfere with fences or other common areas; 2) are maintained properly where necessary; and 3) do not violate federal, state, or local ordinances. The Association respects individuals rights to express their cultural, social, or political views, but urges residents to be considerate of their neighbors."

HOA' in California are very strong, and are backed by California law. HOA CCR and Rules and Regulations are cookie cutter policies, but are unique as each board comes and goes, and also depend how involved the membership is on a monthly basis during board meetings (so there are no "back door" type of meetings with new rules being passed underneath the table).

I agree with Mark (markem) in that you have received a letter from the new board indicating (in all its broadness) that your property is not in compliance.

You need to send them a letter certified and registered and ask them to be specific and advise you what exactly is not compliant, and to cite you page number, section number, paragraph number, and any sort of amendment that backs up their allegation.

Yes, the ball will then officially be in their court.

BTW, some folks in NC probably don't care for the Canadian flag flying in the US of A. Kind of like some folks here in California fly the Mexican flag on their front yard in some parts of Los Angeles

Just sayin....

joshnauburn · 05-27-2015, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remo

Sorry about the issue, I don't live in a HOA so no help there, but if it's not written in the by laws I would keep flying them, tell them to sue me, I don't see a case. Seems like it is very subjective and would not hold up in court, or I would erect a huge flag pole and find the biggest flags and fly them!

With the 'batman' light illuminating them at night

Old Sailor · 05-31-2015, 12:22 AM

Wait.......what......they DON'T like the Canadian Flag!!!! tell them don't make me come over there!

05-26-2015, 05:51 PM	#1
Remo C.I.A Join Date: Feb 2011 First Name: Mike Location: Palm Harbor, Florida Posts: 12,597 Trading: (122)	Re: Need some advice/legal advice Sorry about the issue, I don't live in a HOA so no help there, but if it's not written in the by laws I would keep flying them, tell them to sue me, I don't see a case. Seems like it is very subjective and would not hold up in court, or I would erect a huge flag pole and find the biggest flags and fly them! __________________

05-26-2015, 06:12 PM	#2
markem Bunion Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Mark Location: Second Star on the Right Posts: 22,653 Trading: (47)	Re: Need some advice/legal advice I have no idea how the law works in NC, but having been on the HOA board here, I can relate some ideas that may be applicable. Most reputable lawyers will give you about 1/2 hour pro bono to discuss your case. Contact the state bar association for recommendations. Also ask about services to help homeowners in your circumstances. The state may also have resources available. In Oregon, the law pertaining to HOAs is part of ORS Chapter 94 (http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/chapter/94). Specifically, the laws mandates that no CC&Rs, by-laws, etc. for a subdivision or HOA may exceed that permitted in ORS.94 but may be more limiting. It may be worth finding out where the NC law is and what is says. Your local police department may have a neighborhood dispute resolution service. However, if the HOA insists that they are in the right, the resolution service will do no good. I have a somewhat funny frog story from when my HOA (when still run by the developer) sent me a threatening letter. I had to seek legal advice and pay to have a letter written to the HOA which caused them to go away for good. You may need to go this route. I paid $175 for my letter and it was worth it. As for ignoring them, it is typical that an HOA has the ability to file a lien on any property within the subdivision. If they file one, they do not have to inform you (at least not here) and neither does the county (where, presumably the lien is filed). You may only discover this when trying to sell and have no time to fight it since it will hold up the sale. Also note that HOAs in most states can add some form of an interest penalty for outstanding fines. Many locales give you the ability to monitor your property record for liens. and finally, I do believe that if you ask for the justification for their reasoning -- which part of the bylaws, CC&R, state law, etc. -- that supports their claim, then the ball is in their court until they justify their reasoning. Note that they do not have to get a legal opinion, just justify why they are taking the steps that that they are taking (i.e., a reasonable person would agree with them based solely on the justification they provide). If that is the case, then they should not be able to move forward with any fines or other actions until they satisfy your (reasonable) request. Make sure that all correspondence occurs with registered mail in case a paper trail is necessary down the line. __________________ I refuse to belong to any organization that would have me as a member. ~ Groucho Marx

05-26-2015, 07:44 PM	#3
MarkinAZ Formerly MarkinOR Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Mark Location: Sun City West, AZ Posts: 6,221 Trading: (40)	Re: Need some advice/legal advice Your property is just too well manicured Scott. No wonder you received that threatening letter from the new HOA board So, I was looking through my HOA' rules n regulations, and ascertained the following: II. ARCHITECTURAL RULES, 13. GENERAL ACHITECTURAL states: "Exterior decorations or forms of self-expression such as flags, wind chimes, small statues, planters, or various ornamental items are permitted so long as they 1) do not damage or interfere with fences or other common areas; 2) are maintained properly where necessary; and 3) do not violate federal, state, or local ordinances. The Association respects individuals rights to express their cultural, social, or political views, but urges residents to be considerate of their neighbors." HOA' in California are very strong, and are backed by California law. HOA CCR and Rules and Regulations are cookie cutter policies, but are unique as each board comes and goes, and also depend how involved the membership is on a monthly basis during board meetings (so there are no "back door" type of meetings with new rules being passed underneath the table). I agree with Mark (markem) in that you have received a letter from the new board indicating (in all its broadness) that your property is not in compliance. You need to send them a letter certified and registered and ask them to be specific and advise you what exactly is not compliant, and to cite you page number, section number, paragraph number, and any sort of amendment that backs up their allegation. Yes, the ball will then officially be in their court. BTW, some folks in NC probably don't care for the Canadian flag flying in the US of A. Kind of like some folks here in California fly the Mexican flag on their front yard in some parts of Los Angeles Just sayin.... __________________ "Don't worry, God will work out His plan for your life..." Psalm 138 8

05-31-2015, 12:22 AM	#5
Old Sailor Black Ops - S.O.B. Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dave Location: Side Porta!! Kingsville, Ont., Canada Posts: 4,218 Trading: (22)	Re: Need some advice/legal advice Wait.......what......they DON'T like the Canadian Flag!!!! tell them don't make me come over there! __________________ Canadian Armed Forces 1976! Canadian Coast Guard, retired in 2012 after 32 years!!