Tom Brady

[Bruins Fan]

Not to disparage any of the great players..but it was a different game before unrestricted free agency that started in 1992.

Teams could be built and players had no movement, QB's might throw the ball 20 times a game?

Just look at the old steeler teams, great defense big back to ground and pound, and a couple great receivers same with the 49'ers and cowboys.

Today you have a salary cap, so teams have to do their homework building a team. The Pats got that covered

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Bruins Fan

Today you have a salary cap, so teams have to do their homework building a team. The Pats got that covered

That's all Bill Belichick. He's got full autonomy and he has for years and years.
He's presided over Tom Brady's entire reign as QB, made the choice to jettison Bledsoe, "suffered" a 9-7 reason because of it, etc.

Don't think for a minute that Brady would have prospered so greatly were he not under Belichick.
Last year (maybe it was 2013?), for example.
The Pats sucked. Brady took tantrums and looked like an idiot through the first 4 weeks until Belichick pulled some receivers out of his ass.
Without stellar receivers, carefully practiced timing, and everything in a perfect vacuum, Brady collapsed.
Then he took tantrums, screamed at his teammates, and acted like he was a 13 year old girl.

That is what it is. Jay Cutler and Phillip Rivers have had their 13 year-old girl moments. So have many others.
Point being, he didn't general what he had into a winning position.
He took a fit.
A guy like Peyton Manning, who's been working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career has made due. Without tantrums.

All that is a BIG intangible.
Had Brady not had Belichick, he'd be Phillip Rivers. Guaranteed.
Bill Belichick is the brain behind Brady, always has been.
Were Belichick still in Cleveland, the Lombardi's would be stacked up in Berrea.

That only takes away from Brady in those "best ever" conversations.
He's going to see his place at the top of the record books, but his spot isn't going to last, not the way the NFL is headed.
It'll be Arena Football soon and Brady's numbers, and Montana's numbers, and everyone else's numbers will look like sh1t compared to some of the kids who haven't even come up through college yet.

[Porch Dweller]

Originally Posted by shilala

That's all Bill Belichick. He's got full autonomy and he has for years and years.
He's presided over Tom Brady's entire reign as QB, made the choice to jettison Bledsoe, "suffered" a 9-7 reason because of it, etc.

Don't think for a minute that Brady would have prospered so greatly were he not under Belichick.
Last year (maybe it was 2013?), for example.
The Pats sucked. Brady took tantrums and looked like an idiot through the first 4 weeks until Belichick pulled some receivers out of his ass.
Without stellar receivers, carefully practiced timing, and everything in a perfect vacuum, Brady collapsed.
Then he took tantrums, screamed at his teammates, and acted like he was a 13 year old girl.

That is what it is. Jay Cutler and Phillip Rivers have had their 13 year-old girl moments. So have many others.
Point being, he didn't general what he had into a winning position.
He took a fit.
A guy like Peyton Manning, who's been working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career has made due. Without tantrums.

All that is a BIG intangible.
Had Brady not had Belichick, he'd be Phillip Rivers. Guaranteed.
Bill Belichick is the brain behind Brady, always has been.
Were Belichick still in Cleveland, the Lombardi's would be stacked up in Berrea.

That only takes away from Brady in those "best ever" conversations.
He's going to see his place at the top of the record books, but his spot isn't going to last, not the way the NFL is headed.
It'll be Arena Football soon and Brady's numbers, and Montana's numbers, and everyone else's numbers will look like sh1t compared to some of the kids who haven't even come up through college yet.

Brady's had a bunch of nobodies as his receivers his entire career, with occasional exceptions of greatness such as Moss (for only three years), Gronk, Troy Brown, and Welker (who has only shined as a receiver with Brady as QB). He's made it work all the time with a revolving door of guys that were cut and signed off the wire and would probably be working at Planet Fitness if they had any other QB than Brady throwing to them.
Heck yeah, he's benefited from having the greatest coach ever; who wouldn't? But to have some of the guys he's had to throw to and still have the success he's had is NOT all on Belichek, not even close.

Your comment about Manning working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career is...well...puzzling. Manning benefited from playing most of his entire career in domes (Brady's stat's in domes are better than Mannings, BTW) and had consistent receivers, at least much more consistent than Brady, along with one of the greatest receiving RBs ever, Marshal Faulk. And as far as "tantrums", ANYONE can get frustrated and riled up. Remember, Manning gave us the wonderful Manning Face.

Here's a nice comparison between Brady and Manning. Here's a summary if you don't want to read the whole thing (it is long): Brady is Manning's statistical equal despite playing his entire career outdoors with inferior talent; Brady puts up more points and wins more consistently than any QB in history; Brady typically beats Manning head to head even with inferior teams; and Brady doesn't crap the bed every year in the playoffs.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Porch Dweller

Brady's had a bunch of nobodies as his receivers his entire career, with occasional exceptions of greatness such as Moss (for only three years), Gronk, Troy Brown, and Welker (who has only shined as a receiver with Brady as QB). He's made it work all the time with a revolving door of guys that were cut and signed off the wire and would probably be working at Planet Fitness if they had any other QB than Brady throwing to them.
Heck yeah, he's benefited from having the greatest coach ever; who wouldn't? But to have some of the guys he's had to throw to and still have the success he's had is NOT all on Belichek, not even close.

Your comment about Manning working in FAR less than perfect conditions his entire career is...well...puzzling. Manning benefited from playing most of his entire career in domes (Brady's stat's in domes are better than Mannings, BTW) and had consistent receivers, at least much more consistent than Brady, along with one of the greatest receiving RBs ever, Marshal Faulk. And as far as "tantrums", ANYONE can get frustrated and riled up. Remember, Manning gave us the wonderful Manning Face.

Here's a nice comparison between Brady and Manning. Here's a summary if you don't want to read the whole thing (it is long): Brady is Manning's statistical equal despite playing his entire career outdoors with inferior talent; Brady puts up more points and wins more consistently than any QB in history; Brady typically beats Manning head to head even with inferior teams; and Brady doesn't crap the bed every year in the playoffs.

Not wanting to dive headlong into this debate, but Marshall Faulk? Really? Manning only played with Faulk Manning's rookie year before Faulk was traded to the Rams. Not even worth mentioning his name.


I have a good buddy that's an editor at FO that I could send your way that loves nothing more than to debate Brady vs. Manning. Him and I butt heads cause he thinks Rodgers is nothing more than a front runner. On second thought, eff him.