Espresso at Home

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by Swampper

...The Silvia is a good 1st machine, but the Oscar is the real deal. It's stable temperature makes a LOT of difference.

I would like to underscore that you must have a source for freshly roasted beans, and a good burr grinder...

Thanks for kind remarks.

It's easy to come off as a total azzozzole (my specialty) talking about the fruitlessness of sub $200-300 grinders paired with minimum $500 coffeemakers but - what else can I say that your own experience hasn't borne out? Every time I read about someone "jumping" on a low end espresso machine (and saying they'll get around to a better grinder later) I feel... no. I will not go this way again.

All I want to say more about home espresso:

1. it can be way better than than 90% of what coffeeshops sell; and
2. it takes about $1000 minimum to play; and
3. it's a stupid sport, really, when a great grinder and a $20 mokapot can make staggeringly good coffee approaching espresso.

You gotta really want it. There's cheap ways in but results will almost always disappoint.

Having said this I now concede that there are a few people with $149 Hamilton Beach espresso makers and $150 Solis grinders who will say they love their stuff, they make world class espresso and I'm full of chit. Well, I'm sure they're right.

But let me hear back from them after 24-months. If they still disagree with me then they don't know what good espresso is supposed to tate like - or they're OK with 65% of their shots being sorry, which, with enough milk, sugar or syrup, may be fine.

I check this thread every morning just to drool....

I don't have the $$$$ maker....mine was discussed, slammed, hammered, kicked, and basically called a POS the last time I mentioned it.

It's claim to fame, however, is that it's spent more time in Iraq than in my kitchen!!

I've been dying to get a Gaggia one of these years, but that machine will NEVER leave the house!!!

Besides, I'm more of the "shade tree mechanic" approach to espresso - even a lousy glob is better than none at all...and always a learning experience.

Couple of the guys here blew me away with some amaaaaaaaaaazing french press coffee at the MB Herf...but that's another story!!!

Keep them pics coming Moo!!!!

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by tobii3

I don't have the $$$$ maker....mine was discussed, slammed, hammered, kicked, and basically called a POS the last time I mentioned it.

Besides... ...even a lousy glob is ... always a learning experience.

hope I wasn't the one who hammered your piece of sh... I mean, your espresso maker. Hey! You start where you are and make the best of what you have. That's always it, isn't it? I heartily agree that any espresso machine is the route to learning the process, developing a little technique to get the best from what you've got and deciding if a next step is a good idea or not.

Originally Posted by md4958

...I would rather see somebody buy a $20 moka, than a $150 espresso machine.

The problem as a professional barista, is that when somebody is used to drinking lousy coffee, they almost expect it.

That nails it down for me. I was imprinted by a couple of years of killer coffee while I was in Europe and, upon returning home I wanted to reproduce it. Slap wore me out with the wrong espresso gear. And, for sure, a mokapot paired with a good grinder is 5x the value of a low-flight grinder paired with a $2000 espresso machine.

Grinders... gotta get to grinders one of these days. They really do come before everything else in coffeeland. Uh, in my overblown and highly overrated self-important opinion of this topic. I am really just guessing on all this stuff so, if anyone takes me to be too full of myself, just remember - I don't know what I'm talking about. That my disclaimer and I'm sticking to it.

[mosesbotbol]

Been using Silvia for like 10 years... Not as stable temps as I would like, but no complaints on the espresso. Replaced a few parts and is still going strong.

I do see a replacement on the horizon, distant horizon. Or as my girlfriend says "Put on the list..."

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Been using Silvia for like 10 years... Not as stable temps as I would like, but no complaints on the espresso. Replaced a few parts and is still going strong.

I do see a replacement on the horizon, distant horizon. Or as my girlfriend says "Put on the list..."

The Rancilio Silvia was the grail for home espresso for many years. As bigger, heavier, fancier-schmancier more temp. stable machines started getting attention for home use (at half-again or more the price of a Silvia) some of the gloss fell off "old reliable."

Then the smart coffee-dweeb boys starting putting PID (Proportional Integral Derivative) controllers on their Silvias for much less than the price of a fancy-schmancy new brewer and claimed results equal to perfection. What's not to like about perfection? Add $300 to a very good machine and have a perfect machine.

I have considered putting a PID unit on my Oscar now that some pioneers have shown the same results can get had with PID'd heat-exchanger espresso brewers, too. The coffee has been fine but, again, what's so wrong with perfection?

[TOB9595]

I am a newb pilgrim on the path of COFFEE.
I will shelve the idea of espresso...
Grinder and Moka POT? Huh?

Off to read about Mokas and grinders.
later
Tom

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by TOB9595

I am a newb pilgrim on the path of COFFEE.
I will shelve the idea of espresso...
Grinder and Moka POT? Huh?

Off to read about Mokas and grinders.
later
Tom

Just grinders, Tom. Nothing to read about mokapots; just get a 1-3 cupper Bialetti Express or Brikka (if you're the lazy, non- mechanical hands-on fidget type).

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

The Rancilio Silvia was the grail for home espresso for many years. As bigger, heavier, fancier-schmancier more temp. stable machines started getting attention for home use (at half-again or more the price of a Silvia) some of the gloss fell off "old reliable."

Then the smart coffee-dweeb boys starting putting PID (Proportional Integral Derivative) controllers on their Silvias for much less than the price of a fancy-schmancy new brewer and claimed results equal to perfection. What's not to like about perfection? Add $300 to a very good machine and have a perfect machine.

I have considered putting a PID unit on my Oscar now that some pioneers have shown the same results can get had with PID'd heat-exchanger espresso brewers, too. The coffee has been fine but, again, what's so wrong with perfection?

Just started reading on this. Heard about it for years, now I am curious! On the fense whether to try this or sell my grinder/machine set and just go new. The upgrade I would want is around $3K...

[Mister Moo]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Just started reading on this. Heard about it for years, now I am curious! On the fense whether to try this or sell my grinder/machine set and just go new. The upgrade I would want is around $3K...

I have veered away from alt.coffee but that's where the real technicians are, guys who were PID'ing everything (esp. the Rancilio Silvia) with excellent results. At least one man even PID'd an Oscar (HX machine) with similarly good results.

I don't know if your Silvia will provide the steam or recovery time you'd like, but it can deliver perfect water temp with a little help from the sidehack module.

looks like I better save my allowance so can play with the big boys when it comes to espresso...

It is like anything, computers, cars, HiFi stereos or whatever else.. if you want the best you need to invest..

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Mister Moo

3. it's a stupid sport, really, when a great grinder and a $20 mokapot can make staggeringly good coffee approaching espresso.

Moo, I completely agree. I would rather see somebody buy a $20 moka, than a $150 espresso machine.

The problem as a professional barista, is that when somebody is used to drinking lousy coffee, they almost expect it. Aggrivating to say the least, espically when they are used to the that Starsucks sells.