College Hoops Thread '09-'10 - Page 31

jcruse64 · 03-21-2010, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Which proves what?

h

Look, if they play each other I guess we'll find out who wins, won't we? Until then my opinion of Kentucky is much the same as it is of Kansas, ovverrated. Kentucky consisently struggled all year against teams they suppossedly were a lot better than. Play like that now and you're goin home. And no, you're not going to change my mind

My thoughts exactly, but in regards to Syracuse instead. UL was not a great team this year, way inconsistent and not nearly as good a team as 'Cuse, but they took Syracuse's lunch money twice, no??? Syracuse = overrated, IMO.

Hey, we can trade back and forth all night, but the rubber hits the road when the games start, so we'll see then. I do agree that Kansas was a bit overrated, but I never expected them to go so flat this early in the tourney, and I figured them to make it to the finals over 'Cuse. Can't believe they decided to wait to press till that late in the game.

forgop · 03-21-2010, 07:31 PM

How about a little love for my Boilermakers???

I'd love to beat Duke on Friday, but somehow think we'll fall just a bit short without our best player in the lineup.

WildBlueSooner · 03-21-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Which proves what?

h

Look, if they play each other I guess we'll find out who wins, won't we? Until then my opinion of Kentucky is much the same as it is of Kansas, ovverrated. Kentucky consisently struggled all year against teams they suppossedly were a lot better than. Play like that now and you're goin home. And no, you're not going to change my mind

All I can say is I hope we meet...I think it is funny people are still calling UK overrated, yet Cuse and Puke are the other 1 seeds

I love it! College Basketball at its finest...

My prediction...UK over KSU 84 to 72 for title number 8! Although I would love to beat Cuse instead. Oh and what team hasnt had close games...I dont care if we won every game by one point..a win is a win is a win, havent you been watching the tournament. I one point game in the championship game means one thing...you just won the National Championship in exciting fashion!

And I dont plan on changing your mind....I will let the b-ball do that

WildBlueSooner · 03-21-2010, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgop

How about a little love for my Boilermakers???

I'd love to beat Duke on Friday, but somehow think we'll fall just a bit short without our best player in the lineup.

I am glad for Purdue...nice game

The Poet · 03-22-2010, 03:08 PM

Well, I'm glad to see there was some activity on this thread while I was gone, since there was so little on the court.

A few thoughts on the postings:

All props to Northern Iowa for knocking out top-ranked Kansas. I knew they had good help-defense and some decent options on offense, but I never gave them a chance against KU. I doubt if you did either. But I don't doubt you also whooped - one way or the other - when that mad Iranian bomber Farokhmanesh shot down the Jayhawks with that trey at 38 ticks. And from the Kansas viewpoint . . . well, perhaps they should change that "Rock Chalk" to "Brick Choke".

And while we're on the subject, props too to Cornell, St. Mary's, and Washington. Thanks for screwing up everybody's brackets.

When it comes to the Orange, I think they have a good shot at the Final Four, and put them there in my bracket. But I do not trust that zone to win a championship, especially when a talented and well-coached team has a week to prepare for it. Luckily for them, Butler and Xavier is the latter, and K-State the former, but neither is both. Unluckily for them, both Mich. State and Ohio State, possible semis opponents, ARE both.

Duke, another 1-seed, is in my eyes the least talented of the top teams left. But they are more talented than many of you give them credit, and are amongst the best coached squads left. They can beat you at their game or yours . . . and they can fall flat on their face. Fortunately for them, neither Purdue without Hummel nor Baylor/St. Mary's match up well against them, so they could . . . COULD! . . . walk into the FF.

Now for the sticky one: From what I've seen so far, Kentucky has played at a higher level than anybody else so far. If they keep it up, and considering the way they have diddled about in other games this season that is a sizable IF, they now have to be favored. At that point, we will need to wait and see if the NCAA lets them keep their wins. Perhaps you missed it, but a few days back the Sec. of Education Arne Duncan stated that there were a dozen teams in the Tourney with a graduation rate of less than 40%, and due to this he felt they should not even be allowed to compete - and UK was amongst these. As he put it, that's a low bar if you can't graduate 2 out of 5 of your student-athletes. Of course, he has no power over the NCAA, but he says he does intend to use the power of his office to push for such a requirement.

On a subject unrelated to this . . . leastwise for rabid Kentucky fans . . . the appeal of Memphis University to the NCAA regarding the penalties and sanctions levied against their 2007-08 team has been denied, and they have had to forfeit their 38 wins that year. As for whether or not they can keep that loss to Kansas in the championship game . . . you remember, the one they gave the Jayhawks from the line, after Calipari said all season that their poor free-throw shooting hadn't hurt them yet, so why think that it would now? . . . well, I suppose they can keep it.

OK, let the spitballs fly. I'm ready!

jcruse64 · 03-22-2010, 04:54 PM

Incoming.....ptooey!!!

I saw the story on Memphis this morning. I am probably not educated enough with the full case, but I thought this hinged on the fact that NCAA bosses told Memphis twice that Rose could play, so they played him. What'd I miss????

On graduation rates, do one-and-done's factor in these grad rates (I'd assume they do)? Why penalize a program whose talented players go off to play for the big $$$ before they finish a degree?

03-22-2010, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcruse64

On graduation rates, do one-and-done's factor in these grad rates (I'd assume they do)? Why penalize a program whose talented players go off to play for the big $$$ before they finish a degree?

Can't answer this for sure, but it certainly seems to me that the handful of players who leave school early to play pro ball are going to have a negligible effect on overall graduation rates.

What is probably irritating them the most about schools like Kentucky is for some reason there is a huge racial disparity in the athletic grad rates:

http://web.bus.ucf.edu/documents/spo...s_Bball_PR.pdf

WildBlueSooner · 03-22-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Poet

Well, I'm glad to see there was some activity on this thread while I was gone, since there was so little on the court.

A few thoughts on the postings:

All props to Northern Iowa for knocking out top-ranked Kansas. I knew they had good help-defense and some decent options on offense, but I never gave them a chance against KU. I doubt if you did either. But I don't doubt you also whooped - one way or the other - when that mad Iranian bomber Farokhmanesh shot down the Jayhawks with that trey at 38 ticks. And from the Kansas viewpoint . . . well, perhaps they should change that "Rock Chalk" to "Brick Choke".

And while we're on the subject, props too to Cornell, St. Mary's, and Washington. Thanks for screwing up everybody's brackets.

When it comes to the Orange, I think they have a good shot at the Final Four, and put them there in my bracket. But I do not trust that zone to win a championship, especially when a talented and well-coached team has a week to prepare for it. Luckily for them, Butler and Xavier is the latter, and K-State the former, but neither is both. Unluckily for them, both Mich. State and Ohio State, possible semis opponents, ARE both.

Duke, another 1-seed, is in my eyes the least talented of the top teams left. But they are more talented than many of you give them credit, and are amongst the best coached squads left. They can beat you at their game or yours . . . and they can fall flat on their face. Fortunately for them, neither Purdue without Hummel nor Baylor/St. Mary's match up well against them, so they could . . . COULD! . . . walk into the FF.

Now for the sticky one: From what I've seen so far, Kentucky has played at a higher level than anybody else so far. If they keep it up, and considering the way they have diddled about in other games this season that is a sizable IF, they now have to be favored. At that point, we will need to wait and see if the NCAA lets them keep their wins. Perhaps you missed it, but a few days back the Sec. of Education Arne Duncan stated that there were a dozen teams in the Tourney with a graduation rate of less than 40%, and due to this he felt they should not even be allowed to compete - and UK was amongst these. As he put it, that's a low bar if you can't graduate 2 out of 5 of your student-athletes. Of course, he has no power over the NCAA, but he says he does intend to use the power of his office to push for such a requirement.

On a subject unrelated to this . . . leastwise for rabid Kentucky fans . . . the appeal of Memphis University to the NCAA regarding the penalties and sanctions levied against their 2007-08 team has been denied, and they have had to forfeit their 38 wins that year. As for whether or not they can keep that loss to Kansas in the championship game . . . you remember, the one they gave the Jayhawks from the line, after Calipari said all season that their poor free-throw shooting hadn't hurt them yet, so why think that it would now? . . . well, I suppose they can keep it.

OK, let the spitballs fly. I'm ready!

No spitballs....I just love reading about UK good or bad...because when you are hated, you are damn good.

NCRadioMan · 03-22-2010, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcruse64

On graduation rates, do one-and-done's factor in these grad rates (I'd assume they do)? Why penalize a program whose talented players go off to play for the big $$$ before they finish a degree?

Yes, it does count against the rate. As does a player that transfers to another school.

It's all screwed up.

vankleekkw · 03-22-2010, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgop

How about a little love for my Boilermakers???

I'd love to beat Duke on Friday, but somehow think we'll fall just a bit short without our best player in the lineup.

Boiler-Up!!! I love how Kramer took it to the house for the win.

The Poet · 03-23-2010, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

Yes, it does count against the rate. As does a player that transfers to another school.

It's all screwed up.

According to the story I read in USA Today (available online, if you want to search), that 40% figure did NOT include any players who left early for the NBA, nor did it include any players who transferred. Furthermore, that graduation rate was not calculated over a four-year cycle, but rather a six-year one, which not only makes allowance for the redshirts and fifth-year seniors but also for the added strain put upon a player's time and energy devoted to the team (why no such allowance is duly given to the poor slob who flips burgers or stocks shelves in order to pay tuition, don't ask me). However, it is logical to assume that this figure DOES include those scrubs and walk-ons who sit on the end of the bench, and who feel lucky if they get into a game for a minute at the end of a blow-out, and whose main contribution to the success of the team is as the practice squad against the starters in scrimmages. And although I have no facts to support the assertion, I would think it also logical to assume that the graduation rate of these benchwarmers is HIGHER than that of the team stars. If that is taken as a given, even if just for argument's sake, then the actual graduation rate of those players who truly do account for the success or failure of the team is even significantly LOWER than the 40% figure given in the report.

But hey, who cares? What role does education and integrity play in all this, when there are games to win? Why should an institute of higher learning concern itself whether or not any learning truly happens? What business is it of theirs?

If nothing else, I'm trying my best to keep this thread going until action starts again Thursday . . . since nobody much cares about the NIT games this evening.

NCRadioMan · 03-23-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Poet

According to the story I read in USA Today (available online, if you want to search), that 40% figure did NOT include any players who left early for the NBA, nor did it include any players who transferred.

That's not what Doug Gottlieb and other talking heads at ESPN (HYPE) have been saying.

The Poet · 03-23-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

That's not what Doug Gottlieb and other talking heads at ESPN (HYPE) have been saying.

I believe you, brother. However:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educati...proposal_N.htm

Look at the paragraph right after the 12 schools cited. That's all I know.

The Poet · 03-23-2010, 04:45 PM

St. John's has been granted permission by Georgia Tech (who, BTW, is another of those dozen NCAA teams cited for their sub-40% graduation rate) to talk to Paul Hewitt as the Johnnies begin their search to replace the recently-fired Norm Roberts. Hewitt is from New York, which may be part of the incentive from both sides. A second possible one, from his point-of-view, is the possibility that he will lose several key underclassmen to the NBA as well as his - presumably? mebbe not - graduating seniors.

Hey, if he thinks he's gonna waltz into a more talented squad at St. John's, he's nutz.

jcruse64 · 03-23-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Poet

But hey, who cares? What role does education and integrity play in all this, when there are games to win? Why should an institute of higher learning concern itself whether or not any learning truly happens? What business is it of theirs?

I'm with ya. Not even touching on all the behind-the-scenes stuff with boosters/way-more-money-than-sense supporters who are throwing $$$ around behind the scenes and adding to all the unsavoriness (sp?). I love UK ball, but I also am not dumb enough to think UK Blue is pure Blue. I lay a lot of the blame on that right with NCAA, which now comes into billions in revenue on the backs of the "student-athlete". Plenty of blame to go around here. And it all starts well before college.

forgop · 03-23-2010, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vankleekkw

Boiler-Up!!! I love how Kramer took it to the house for the win.

I knew you were a Sox fan, but I didn't realize you were this cool.

NCRadioMan · 03-23-2010, 11:56 PM

Too bad for W. Va. They lost their point guard due to a broken foot.

http://www.msnsportsnet.com/page.cfm...ws&story=16336

The Poet · 03-24-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcruse64

I'm with ya. Not even touching on all the behind-the-scenes stuff with boosters/way-more-money-than-sense supporters who are throwing $$$ around behind the scenes and adding to all the unsavoriness (sp?). I love UK ball, but I also am not dumb enough to think UK Blue is pure Blue. I lay a lot of the blame on that right with NCAA, which now comes into billions in revenue on the backs of the "student-athlete". Plenty of blame to go around here. And it all starts well before college.

Joe, the more you post here, the more I like you.

The Poet · 03-24-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

Too bad for W. Va. They lost their point guard due to a broken foot.

http://www.msnsportsnet.com/page.cfm...ws&story=16336

Yeah, I saw that yesterday, and it put another potential hole in my bracket. I picked them to knock UK out. Also, Kalin Lucas is out for Michigan State with a torn Achilles suffered in Sunday's game. It is a shame, but sadly it's all part of the game.

The Poet · 03-24-2010, 03:10 PM

And while we're on injuries, perhaps we need note that Syracuse will again be without center Arinze Onuaku for their game against Butler, as he is still nursing his right quad. The Orange made it past Vermont and Gonzaga without him, and their zone might also get them past the Bulldogs too, even with that hole in the middle. Beyond that, it becomes more of a possible problem.

Hey, how's about some actual hoops news, for a change. You may have missed it - even on purpose - but there was one heck of a game in the NIT last night. Ole Miss outlasted Texas Tech 90-87 in 2OT, and move on to the semifinals in MSG starting next Tuesday. There they will face the winner of tonight's Dayton/Illinois contest.

Also making it to the Garden, to the site where their season-long collapse all began 'way back on Nov. 20th, THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL!! They defeated favored UAB in Birmingham last night 60-55, and now move on to their first NIT semifinals since 1973. Of course, in all fairness, that is mainly because they have spent the best part of the prior four decades in the NCAA Tournament instead. They will face the victor of this evening's Virginia Tech/Rhode Island matchup, and if they can manage to win that one they will - at long last - get their 20th W of the season.

Hey, they have beaten two of the best "bubble" teams dissed by the NCAA in UAB and Miss. State, and are trying to make the best of a no-win situation, so I give them credit for that. Whether or not you choose to do so also, that's your call.

03-21-2010, 07:31 PM	#602
forgop Not a puffer Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Duane Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 2,869 Trading: (40)	Re: College Hoops Thread '09-'10 How about a little love for my Boilermakers??? I'd love to beat Duke on Friday, but somehow think we'll fall just a bit short without our best player in the lineup.

03-22-2010, 03:08 PM	#605
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: College Hoops Thread '09-'10 Well, I'm glad to see there was some activity on this thread while I was gone, since there was so little on the court. A few thoughts on the postings: All props to Northern Iowa for knocking out top-ranked Kansas. I knew they had good help-defense and some decent options on offense, but I never gave them a chance against KU. I doubt if you did either. But I don't doubt you also whooped - one way or the other - when that mad Iranian bomber Farokhmanesh shot down the Jayhawks with that trey at 38 ticks. And from the Kansas viewpoint . . . well, perhaps they should change that "Rock Chalk" to "Brick Choke". And while we're on the subject, props too to Cornell, St. Mary's, and Washington. Thanks for screwing up everybody's brackets. When it comes to the Orange, I think they have a good shot at the Final Four, and put them there in my bracket. But I do not trust that zone to win a championship, especially when a talented and well-coached team has a week to prepare for it. Luckily for them, Butler and Xavier is the latter, and K-State the former, but neither is both. Unluckily for them, both Mich. State and Ohio State, possible semis opponents, ARE both. Duke, another 1-seed, is in my eyes the least talented of the top teams left. But they are more talented than many of you give them credit, and are amongst the best coached squads left. They can beat you at their game or yours . . . and they can fall flat on their face. Fortunately for them, neither Purdue without Hummel nor Baylor/St. Mary's match up well against them, so they could . . . COULD! . . . walk into the FF. Now for the sticky one: From what I've seen so far, Kentucky has played at a higher level than anybody else so far. If they keep it up, and considering the way they have diddled about in other games this season that is a sizable IF, they now have to be favored. At that point, we will need to wait and see if the NCAA lets them keep their wins. Perhaps you missed it, but a few days back the Sec. of Education Arne Duncan stated that there were a dozen teams in the Tourney with a graduation rate of less than 40%, and due to this he felt they should not even be allowed to compete - and UK was amongst these. As he put it, that's a low bar if you can't graduate 2 out of 5 of your student-athletes. Of course, he has no power over the NCAA, but he says he does intend to use the power of his office to push for such a requirement. On a subject unrelated to this . . . leastwise for rabid Kentucky fans . . . the appeal of Memphis University to the NCAA regarding the penalties and sanctions levied against their 2007-08 team has been denied, and they have had to forfeit their 38 wins that year. As for whether or not they can keep that loss to Kansas in the championship game . . . you remember, the one they gave the Jayhawks from the line, after Calipari said all season that their poor free-throw shooting hadn't hurt them yet, so why think that it would now? . . . well, I suppose they can keep it. OK, let the spitballs fly. I'm ready!

03-22-2010, 04:54 PM	#606
jcruse64 Adjusting to the Life Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Joe Location: Paducah, KY USA planet Earth Posts: 313 Trading: (1)	Re: College Hoops Thread '09-'10 Incoming.....ptooey!!! I saw the story on Memphis this morning. I am probably not educated enough with the full case, but I thought this hinged on the fact that NCAA bosses told Memphis twice that Rose could play, so they played him. What'd I miss???? On graduation rates, do one-and-done's factor in these grad rates (I'd assume they do)? Why penalize a program whose talented players go off to play for the big $$$ before they finish a degree?

03-23-2010, 04:45 PM	#614
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: College Hoops Thread '09-'10 St. John's has been granted permission by Georgia Tech (who, BTW, is another of those dozen NCAA teams cited for their sub-40% graduation rate) to talk to Paul Hewitt as the Johnnies begin their search to replace the recently-fired Norm Roberts. Hewitt is from New York, which may be part of the incentive from both sides. A second possible one, from his point-of-view, is the possibility that he will lose several key underclassmen to the NBA as well as his - presumably? mebbe not - graduating seniors. Hey, if he thinks he's gonna waltz into a more talented squad at St. John's, he's nutz.

03-23-2010, 11:56 PM	#617
NCRadioMan Chutney Lovebusciut Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Chutney Location: On the shores of Loch Shiel Posts: 4,276 Trading: (66)	Re: College Hoops Thread '09-'10 Too bad for W. Va. They lost their point guard due to a broken foot. http://www.msnsportsnet.com/page.cfm...ws&story=16336 __________________ The path to loyalty is trust.

03-24-2010, 03:10 PM	#620
The Poet Il megglior fabbro Join Date: Jun 2009 First Name: Thomas Location: Hickory, NC Posts: 8,420 Trading: (2)	Re: College Hoops Thread '09-'10 And while we're on injuries, perhaps we need note that Syracuse will again be without center Arinze Onuaku for their game against Butler, as he is still nursing his right quad. The Orange made it past Vermont and Gonzaga without him, and their zone might also get them past the Bulldogs too, even with that hole in the middle. Beyond that, it becomes more of a possible problem. Hey, how's about some actual hoops news, for a change. You may have missed it - even on purpose - but there was one heck of a game in the NIT last night. Ole Miss outlasted Texas Tech 90-87 in 2OT, and move on to the semifinals in MSG starting next Tuesday. There they will face the winner of tonight's Dayton/Illinois contest. Also making it to the Garden, to the site where their season-long collapse all began 'way back on Nov. 20th, THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA AT CHAPEL HILL!! They defeated favored UAB in Birmingham last night 60-55, and now move on to their first NIT semifinals since 1973. Of course, in all fairness, that is mainly because they have spent the best part of the prior four decades in the NCAA Tournament instead. They will face the victor of this evening's Virginia Tech/Rhode Island matchup, and if they can manage to win that one they will - at long last - get their 20th W of the season. Hey, they have beaten two of the best "bubble" teams dissed by the NCAA in UAB and Miss. State, and are trying to make the best of a no-win situation, so I give them credit for that. Whether or not you choose to do so also, that's your call.